Best-cheapest new car?

[ChazInMT]

I bought a "New" 2000 Accord....40,200 miles, engine bay looks like it just rolled off showroom, trunk looks like nothing was ever put in it. Still, after owning for a few months and reading up, big mistake. I should have found a nice example of a 2004-2007 Accord. It's way more comfortable, drives quieter and better, better mpg, and far more reliable.

[niky]

Originally Posted by darcane

Well, once we get some real data compiled, the story looks a little different.

My go-to site for long term reliability is:
http://www.dashboard-light.com/
They figure out a reliability rating for each vehicle based on the percentage of significant issues with engines or transmissions of used cars sold through dealer auctions. Ratings are further adjusted by percentage of high mileage vehicles and by the age of the vehicle to try to give a fair comparison

Chart comparing Quality Index Ratings of all manufacturers:

http://dashboard-light.com/vehicles/...s/QIRAlpha.png
Honda (+Acura) and Toyota (+Lexus and Scion) do quite well. But so do many GM brands.

The other chart comparing all the manufacturers that I find quite telling is the chart showing percentage of vehicles over 180k miles.

http://dashboard-light.com/vehicles/...s/Over180k.png

Again, Honda, Toyota, and GM all fare well.

Finally, you can go find specific models of cars to see over the years which to avoid. For your Accord:

Honda Accord Reliability - Dashboard Light

Well, it doesn't go back far enough, but you can see a trend of reliability problems (worse than industry average) until about 2003. My generation of Civic has a similar but smaller spike, with models afterwards showing a significant improvement.

Steven Lang is awesome. He used to host that list on its own site, but moved it there just recently.

Great writer, too.

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I think that reliability chart sits that way due to the automatic transmissions. Those were infamously bad on those years of Accord (and Odyssey).

[Hersbird]

Sometimes newer relialibility is different than older relialibility. What I mean is, if I'm looking at a new car powertrain issues wouldn't worry me much as I have 3-10 years of warranty coverage. So buying a fancy turbo or VVT direct injected hybrid gizmo doesn't bother me much. If I'm buying a 2012 or older just off (or long off) warranty I want as simple as possible. I will look at rockauto.com and price common parts. Just because the coil lasts 1.5 times as long on a Lexus but costs 3 times as much are you really better off? A 4 cylinder is better than a 6 is better than a 8, and I would never spend my hard earned money on an old 12 cylinder. Maybe I'm just getting old but I would happily give up some power or mpg just to get something that goes forever. The 4.0 jeep motor was a classic example of something they should have never quit making or changed. There are plenty of other examples out there as well. What new will achieve the same results is harder to determine, but whatever is is will be the dullest, simplist, thing that inspires nobody today. Meaning my brother's Civic type R is out and the Mirage is in.

[MPGomatic]

I've been thinking about the 1.0L Fiesta and Focus a lot lately. It's an amazing little engine. Spent a week with the Fiesta, love the way it drives, but the back seat is tight. Haven't driven the 1.0L Focus yet. Certified Pre-Owned 1.0Ls can be attractively priced, but they're rare.

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

I'd definitely like to try a Fiesta 1.0 turbo.

Have your cake and eat it too?

Not sure about long term reliability, or even availability. The EcoBoost Fiesta and Focus are only selling in tiny numbers compared to the Mirage. Ford USA has refused to confirm there will even be a 2018 Fiesta available in the States (so, that probably means Canada too). Everybody wants CUV's now, so they're likely replacing it with the ECOsport CUV.

Manual Fit (Jazz) is also a good idea.

But in Canada, the base Micra/Mirage are the pair to beat with base MSRP below $10k (Mitsu's base price is 12.5k, but they have had a perpetual $2500 factory rebate on the base trim since the Micra came along).

Note: the base trim Micra, Mirage & Spark do not come with air conditioning in Canada.

[Xist]

1. Honda Prelude. Bought with 150,000 and drove it another 72k.
2. Honda Accord. Hit an elk and drove me 100 miles home and drove itself to the junkyard.
3. Ford Focus. Lasted three months.
4. Nissan Altima. Sold when I joined the Army. I tried to find another when I came home.
5. Ford Focus. Lasted three weeks.
6. Subaru Forester. I replaced the head gasket, AC hoses, power steering hose, knock sensor, half shaft, and probably much more.
7. Honda Civic. Bought with 170,000, have added a little over 50,000. She has had several repairs, but the current average is less than $35 a month.
8. Honda Accord. Have owned one year, driven 10,000 miles, and the $110 cat is the first failure. I wish my Civic drove as well.

Mom has had her Camry 165,000 miles and eleven years. All that she has needed to do is replace the struts.

The Celiac Kid at the bakery declared that if you purchase a used car, you pay for a new car in repairs. He bought a Volkswagen. Those do not score well on those studies or any other ones I have seen, although the one we discussed in http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ons-31037.html showed Mini as the worst.

I find it interesting this chart shows Mercedes doing so well. Scotty Kilmer says they are money pits, dozens of computers that eventually fail, and endless plastic parts that start breaking after nine years.

I have spent perhaps $10,000 in seventeen years. My sister bought her Traverse new and has paid $10,000 in repairs, but she always has dealerships maintain her car. Do they do a better job? Perhaps. Do they charge more? Usually and often very much. She keeps complaining she needs to pay $3,000 to replace the timing belt.

It is a chain.

Repair Pal and its Consumer Reports page do not give an estimate. One of those said dealerships in Phoenix would replace the timing belt on my Accord for $600, but that is before fees and taxes.

I paid over $1,000 to have Pep Boys and another shop replace the timing belts on my Forester and Civic.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Sometimes newer relialibility is different than older relialibility. What I mean is, if I'm looking at a new car powertrain issues wouldn't worry me much as I have 3-10 years of warranty coverage. So buying a fancy turbo or VVT direct injected hybrid gizmo doesn't bother me much. If I'm buying a 2012 or older just off (or long off) warranty I want as simple as possible.

Even buying brand-new, some folks won't want to get out of their comfort zone and become a Guinea pig for newer tech.

I will look at rockauto.com and price common parts.

Yes, sometimes tracking the part number can lead to great savings.

Just because the coil lasts 1.5 times as long on a Lexus but costs 3 times as much are you really better off? A 4 cylinder is better than a 6 is better than a 8, and I would never spend my hard earned money on an old 12 cylinder.

Like we say in my country, "there's nothing more expensive than a cheap BMW (or whatever other premium brand)".

Maybe I'm just getting old but I would happily give up some power or mpg just to get something that goes forever. The 4.0 jeep motor was a classic example of something they should have never quit making or changed. There are plenty of other examples out there as well. What new will achieve the same results is harder to determine, but whatever is is will be the dullest, simplist, thing that inspires nobody today.

Giving up some power for reliability does make sense, and it could eventually be done in a way that wouldn't harm fuel-efficiency too much. For example, I could see an older engine like the GM Iron Duke upfitted with modern features such as multipoint EFI and distributorless ignition easily outlasting modern 4-cyl engines engines around 3/4 of its displacement fitted with 4 valves per cylinder and DOHC heads, and eventually remaining competitive when it comes to fuel consumption due to its lower revving which could be combined with a higher gearing.