Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-29-2012, 08:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: london, on
Posts: 339

Buggie - '01 Vw Beetle TDI Gls
Thanks: 4
Thanked 32 Times in 22 Posts
external intake duct

talked to a guy with a vW eurovan who had a giant 4" pvc pipe hanging out by front right bumper, right through the fender. i asked him, he said it looks stupid as hell (it did) but he had 500,000 kms on the van and he noticed a 3mpg increase after installing it he said he can regularly get 35mpg on the highway if he drove careful.

i had a snorkle on a truck of mine, it did seem to make a difference. anybody try one yet? i know it is like a ram intake but maybe it was in a higher pressure area on the side

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 02-29-2012, 08:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Diesel_Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,194

White Whale - '07 Dodge Ram 2500 ST Quad Cab 2wd, short bed
Team Cummins
90 day: 37.68 mpg (US)
Thanks: 112
Thanked 511 Times in 213 Posts
I've pondered it, but never attempted it. On a turbodiesel I suspect it would help to reduce the pumping losses, although it should be done in a way to minimize the potentially negative aero effects. On a throttled, naturally aspirated engine I suspect that it might not help that much because the increased intake air density will force the throttle to be more closed, so the pumping losses might actually increase.
__________________
Diesel Dave

My version of energy storage is called "momentum".
My version of regenerative braking is called "bump starting".

1 Year Avg (Every Mile Traveled) = 47.8 mpg

BEST TANK: 2,009.6 mi on 35 gal (57.42 mpg): http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...5-a-26259.html


  Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 11:03 PM   #3 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,175

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 269
Thanked 3,522 Times in 2,796 Posts
On a diesel it will work.
I believe in ram air turbodiesel enought to relocate the battery to make room for it.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 07:06 AM   #4 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 355

The Truck - '02 Nissan GU Patrol ST
Thanks: 5
Thanked 76 Times in 50 Posts
Have just started looking at this, starting to check pressures around the body.
I figured ram air should ease the load on the turbo and hence get some economy improvement as long as the setup does not introduce a new drag area, so I am thinking or drawing air from behind the front grille.
One question I was thinking of is that it will pressurize the inlet system slightly pree turbo, but this is also where the PCV dumps blowby gasses in from the crankcase, will this cause more blowby to be retained in the crankcase by pressurising it, is this an issue?
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 10:37 AM   #5 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Diesel_Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,194

White Whale - '07 Dodge Ram 2500 ST Quad Cab 2wd, short bed
Team Cummins
90 day: 37.68 mpg (US)
Thanks: 112
Thanked 511 Times in 213 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla View Post
Have just started looking at this, starting to check pressures around the body.
I figured ram air should ease the load on the turbo and hence get some economy improvement as long as the setup does not introduce a new drag area, so I am thinking or drawing air from behind the front grille.
One question I was thinking of is that it will pressurize the inlet system slightly pree turbo, but this is also where the PCV dumps blowby gasses in from the crankcase, will this cause more blowby to be retained in the crankcase by pressurising it, is this an issue?
Potentially the crankcase vent should be a small issue. The solution to that is quite simple--disconnect the crankcase vent tube from the compressor inlet. Prior to 2007 I know the 5.9L Dodge Cummins engines were configured that way. I believe many off-highway diesels are still that way.


As far as where to draw ther air from, I think it could be done in such a way as to actually help the aero if done correctly. I'm still looking into the best way to do this. One thought I had was to see if you could do it via cowl induction (pull it in right from the base of the windshield). Seems to me like that would slightly reduce the high pressure region that forms there and perhaps help the aero just a little. That being said, I think the effect would be quite small because the amount of air you draw into the engine vs. the amount of air your flowing past your vehicle would be quite small in most cases.
__________________
Diesel Dave

My version of energy storage is called "momentum".
My version of regenerative braking is called "bump starting".

1 Year Avg (Every Mile Traveled) = 47.8 mpg

BEST TANK: 2,009.6 mi on 35 gal (57.42 mpg): http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...5-a-26259.html


  Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 05:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 355

The Truck - '02 Nissan GU Patrol ST
Thanks: 5
Thanked 76 Times in 50 Posts
The small amount of testing I have done indicates the pressure at the base of windscreen is around the same as that at the front of the vehicle.
As for volume it may be significant, say 4.0l engine = 1l/revolution @ 2,000 rpm = 2,000l, this may have a measurable reduction in the pressure wave.
I can't see a practical way for me to get a duct to the windscreen, that's why I'm going up front. Still need to do some checks and see what sort of vacuum is present post air filter, it may be that under cruise conditions by using ram air it may just get the preturbo pressure up to atmospheric.
The other thing that I am considering is when coasting down it may be beneficial to restrict the ram air so the engine is not just pumping air needlessly and loosing the benefits of a downhill coast.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 05:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Diesel_Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,194

White Whale - '07 Dodge Ram 2500 ST Quad Cab 2wd, short bed
Team Cummins
90 day: 37.68 mpg (US)
Thanks: 112
Thanked 511 Times in 213 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla View Post
The small amount of testing I have done indicates the pressure at the base of windscreen is around the same as that at the front of the vehicle.
As for volume it may be significant, say 4.0l engine = 1l/revolution @ 2,000 rpm = 2,000l, this may have a measurable reduction in the pressure wave.
I can't see a practical way for me to get a duct to the windscreen, that's why I'm going up front. Still need to do some checks and see what sort of vacuum is present post air filter, it may be that under cruise conditions by using ram air it may just get the preturbo pressure up to atmospheric.
The other thing that I am considering is when coasting down it may be beneficial to restrict the ram air so the engine is not just pumping air needlessly and loosing the benefits of a downhill coast.
Yeah, the front of the vehicle would also be easier, since you don't have to worry about interacting with opening & closing the hood.
__________________
Diesel Dave

My version of energy storage is called "momentum".
My version of regenerative braking is called "bump starting".

1 Year Avg (Every Mile Traveled) = 47.8 mpg

BEST TANK: 2,009.6 mi on 35 gal (57.42 mpg): http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...5-a-26259.html


  Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 05:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
euromodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 4,683

The SCUD - '15 Fiat Scudo L2
Thanks: 178
Thanked 652 Times in 516 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla View Post
I can't see a practical way for me to get a duct to the windscreen, that's why I'm going up front.
Make sure it won't scoop up water being splashed around when driving through puddles.
__________________
Strayed to the Dark Diesel Side

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 06:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 355

The Truck - '02 Nissan GU Patrol ST
Thanks: 5
Thanked 76 Times in 50 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by euromodder View Post
Make sure it won't scoop up water being splashed around when driving through puddles.
Yep, that's been on my mind as well.
It would actually be behind the grille block, I have put an airdam under radiator and infront of tyres, this sits slightly back from the front bar and main grille, it creates a pressure area behind the grille infront of the radiator.
The way the vehicle is currently the front bullbar acts like a splitter, so above the bar, which includes the main grille, is all blocked and am streamlining that to flow air over and to the sides.
Below the bar is open up to the airdam, which is set at about axle height, this then reduces air going under the vehicle, but also creates a pressure area behind the blocked grille above it.
This is where I intend to draw the intake air from, I will also include a water trap/drain in the ducting in case of a major splash, then also need to provide an alternative/temporary raised intake for water crossings.
There are a number of compromises I am working with, I do want to maximise my fuel economy, but still want the vehicle relatively capable off road, so approach/rampover/departure angles are important as well as other offroad ideals.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 06:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,175

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 269
Thanked 3,522 Times in 2,796 Posts
I had my ram air when I drove from virginia to newmexico and drove throught the longest and worst rain of my life.
My ram air was behind the factory grill and went up hill 5 inches.
As long as you can run the intake pipe up hill you will be good to go.

__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com