EcoModder.com

EcoModder.com (https://ecomodder.com/forum/)
-   EcoModding Central (https://ecomodder.com/forum/ecomodding-central.html)
-   -   Brake drag reduction clips (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/brake-drag-reduction-clips-25907.html)

Diesel_Dave 05-18-2013 01:56 PM

Brake drag reduction clips
 
Does anybody have any experience with these?
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=X-ole...%3DX-oleYCYKLg

RedDevil 05-18-2013 02:39 PM

There are actually several threads on this subject.

A nice link on InsightCentral : Brake friction reduction mod good for all hondas. - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum

freebeard 05-18-2013 03:49 PM

No, but thanks for asking the question. Monday the shop will look at a grinding sound in my right front brake. At ~12 months and 2000 miles. It's hard to get good work.

The list of vehicles fitted is here: http://www.nucap.com/admin/includes/doc_view.php?ID=547

The relevant page on their website: DRT

Nothing listed for earlier than the 1990s. :( Dodge Ram 2500 2008-03 :(

Piwoslaw 05-25-2013 04:35 PM

I'll repeat my question from another thread: Can these be retrofitted? To any car?

I had a look at my pads and they don't have any place I could secure springs to. Unless I used a welder...

arcosine 05-25-2013 08:46 PM

Interesting, I'll have to look into this next time I have the front wheels off. I have some spring steel wire I can bend up.

freebeard 05-26-2013 01:13 AM

My right front brake was fine, but in the right rear the brake shoe was in three pieces.

Piwoslaw -- The examples I saw look like they clip onto studs on the brake pads. There is some variety, but comparing each clip to every car would be quite an undertaking. Take a look at brake pad drag reduction clip then click 'Images" (Google is broken). The brake pads could possibly be modified to accommodate the clips.

retepsnikrep 05-28-2013 08:33 AM

My Results!
 
Well I fitted these front and back on my 2004 HCH1 Hybrid Civic and it makes a tremendous difference. The insight central link posted above is where i posted the details and pics.

I used stock drag reduction spring clips on the front (They were missing on my car) and the Raybestos aftermarket ones on the rear. (We have discs all round over here in UK) What a difference :) rolls very easily.

Now I know my car is a UK spec with A123 lithium fitted and manual IMA control but i'm doing 120mpg (imp) in the civic now. The clips have probably added +5-10mpg with my driving style.

Heartily recommended as a no brainer for every vehicle. :thumbup:

mikeyjd 05-29-2013 09:35 AM

I added mine yesterday. I'll report back any noticeable changes.

Diesel_Dave 05-29-2013 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeyjd (Post 373610)
I added mine yesterday. I'll report back any noticeable changes.

An interesting experiment might also be to jack up the wheel and feel how much resistance there is with and without the clips.

mikeyjd 05-29-2013 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel_Dave (Post 373625)
An interesting experiment might also be to jack up the wheel and feel how much resistance there is with and without the clips.

Good idea. I'll try that.

rmay635703 05-29-2013 07:01 PM

I have been wondering if these things would work on a 2010 chevy cobalt, all the ones i find are for older cobalts for some reason.

mine has craptaskic single sided disk brakes.

i also need to figure out if the miles zx40 will take them since they have disks up front and they do rub and the vehicle coasts poorly.

heck might as well throw them on the 01 1/2t dodge crewcab too.

cheers
Ryan

mikeyjd 05-29-2013 10:27 PM

I put 2 on each of my front wheels (I had em around) and they seemed to make a noticeable difference on the hand spin test, although it's hard to say exactly how much. My rears on the Festiva are drums so I don't think theres anything for that.

hat_man 05-31-2013 02:21 PM

Watching with interest! Any chance of fitting them to a '97 Ranger?

arcosine 06-01-2013 03:43 PM

I stopped at NAPA, but they didn't have them. So I just bent up a a set from two old bicycle spokes. My first impression is there is no brake drag! The car use to come to a full stop and there was always some drag after appling the brakes. Now there is not and it rolls on the slightest grade, even after braking! The brake petal doesn't go down any further than before.

Cost $0.00

The clamp keeps the pads together before assembling the caliper.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3685/...796f416795.jpg

Superfuelgero 06-01-2013 09:47 PM

That looks nice. I may have to do the same since I'm not having any luck on the vx. I would like to find one in the stream of commerce (being a brake part and all). All I've found is the 96+ abs ones, and I have no idea if they'd be close.

rmay635703 07-02-2013 08:27 PM

http://web.archive.org/web/201209160...cfbcc74363aadb

I tried fitting the ones I have on the insight on the Miles ZX40 and no dice, not sure how to make it fit

Has anyone figured out how to make these work on a 2010 Cobalt? I am uncertain how to get the things to fit.

My fathers 02 TDI jetta has tons of brake drag and disks all the way around but again can't find such a beast for that car either.

Bleh, I hate to have to drill and fabricate something, mainly cause it won't get done on cars we use everyday :(

RedDevil 07-03-2013 04:50 AM

Got double clips on the front brakes since yesterday. (OEM is single clips on the leading edges).
Too soon yet to notice any difference on FE. It's not worse, but can't really say better.
Braking seems more consistent now; the transition from energy recovery braking to disk braking happens more fluently. So for that alone it was worthwhile.
The wheel alignment was set neutral so it is a mixed experience anyway. Average FE for this tank has suffered from the roof box trip and the 20.000 km service.

freebeard 07-03-2013 05:31 AM

RedDevil --
arcosine --

I don't need to be sold on the idea. Any tips on where to start? Either in general or specific to 1971 VW front disks?

RedDevil 07-03-2013 05:46 AM

Can't tell for the VW.
I had my dealership put stock Honda springs in, got no time nor skills to do it myself.

A shame basically cause like Aqua pointed out in the Insight thread, it is worthwhile leaning to essential to clean the brakes from any buildup to make the springs really push the pads back far enough to not have them touch the brakes.
I cannot imagine that my dealership did anything more than just flip them in; it was the smallest post on the bill.

t vago 07-03-2013 08:47 AM

It'll be very interesting to see the results of any A-B-A testing for these clips. Been considering getting a set.

Diesel_Dave 07-03-2013 10:19 AM

I got a set that are supposed to fit the front of my truck. I think they're the wrong model since I can't figure out how they attach to my pads. I'm going to try to see if the ones I have fit on the rear.

California98Civic 07-03-2013 10:43 AM

Subscribed.

redneck 07-03-2013 05:28 PM

.

Raybestos did a "caliper drag torque test" which showed a 49% reduction in brake drag.

http://www.raybestos.com/wps/wcm/con...1df63649a75f53



NUCAP DRT did a similar test that showed a 79% reduction in brake drag.

DRT



Looks promising... :)

>

mikeyjd 07-03-2013 05:56 PM

I've been getting better mileage since installing mine. It's really hard to say what difference they've made but I'm pretty certain they haven't hindered anything. I had a few of them around and it took me like 10 minutes to put em on each side.

arcosine 07-05-2013 05:58 PM

You people are too analytical, just bend up a piece of wire and stick in the brakes.

California98Civic 07-06-2013 12:47 AM

Just ordered a set of four of Raybestos clips for $7.xx that are intended for the 1998 Civic EX, supposedly. The EX did have somewhat different brake calipers, but getting my hands on them will allow me to modify and immitate if they don't specifically fit. Price was right. Will report back.

suspectnumber961 07-06-2013 10:49 AM

Good idea. Bicycle spokes are made of spring steel or what they call piano wire...a heat treated higher carbon steel. I have a couple variations of this wire...it is tougher than sh*t and is hard to bend and harder to cut. But it holds it's shape after bending. Just need to not try to bend any sharp corners in it. You could also drill some small holes into the lining material near the steel backing plate for a place to insert the wires if needed.

Best to test a car for brake drag is after driving till warmed up....stop at a stop sign...move the car just slightly...take it out of gear..watch for any excessive drag as it rolls slightly to a stop?

Another test for dragging brakes is to drive maybe 25 miles or so on the highway using the brakes very little...stop the vehicle...carefully touch the rotors or drums with your finger...if you feel a burning sensation :( ...your brakes are dragging...mpg going into heat. :thumbup:


Quote:

Originally Posted by arcosine (Post 374163)
I stopped at NAPA, but they didn't have them. So I just bent up a a set from two old bicycle spokes. My first impression is there is no brake drag! The car use to come to a full stop and there was always some drag after appling the brakes. Now there is not and it rolls on the slightest grade, even after braking! The brake petal doesn't go down any further than before.

Cost $0.00

The clamp keeps the pads together before assembling the caliper.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3685/...796f416795.jpg


Superfuelgero 07-08-2013 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by California98Civic (Post 379270)
Just ordered a set of four of Raybestos clips for $7.xx that are intended for the 1998 Civic EX, supposedly. The EX did have somewhat different brake calipers, but getting my hands on them will allow me to modify and immitate if they don't specifically fit. Price was right. Will report back.

I used the napa brand ones on my vx (#UP 84201).
NAPA AUTO PARTS
The vx and non-abs 6th gen should both use the Akabono caliper. Worked and fit just fine. The abs has a slightly different pad at the ends (deeper notch), but might work also since that's not the acting part.
-Aaron

arcosine 07-08-2013 08:00 PM

I should have used the stainless steel spokes. I used two vice grips to bend them.

California98Civic 07-16-2013 04:12 PM

Installed the clips. I did some low speed round-the-block testing. Maybe brake drag is reduced. I cannot tell for certain. Any improvement might be in the range of data noise? Or maybe that soft non-squealing metal on metal sandy -sound that I introduced is increasing drag. It's a very mild sound. But clearly one or two of the eight total possible contact points are in fact slightly skimming the rotors. Gotta go back in. Oh well. :turtle:

They should fit. Before installing I searched the part number on the bag "H6001." Raybestos indicates that these clips fit the "1998 Honda Civic". And Amazon lists them as fitting my DX exactly, though they oddly also highlight the EX/Si (no mention of HX).

So they should fit. The error is mine, right? Any advice welcomed...

[EDIT: on a ten mile each way half freeway trip I noticed all sounds seem to go away at higher speeds. Maybe just drowned out by road noise. But after driving a higher speeds the sounds are gone even at lower speeds. Sometimes felt like a super quiet amazing coaster on rails (no brake friction noise. Still, will fine tune.]

suspectnumber961 07-18-2013 08:30 AM

There are at least 2 issues the clips will probably not overcome.....sticking calipers where corrosion in the piston area of the caliper can cause the pads to not retract....also the sliders can stick. You can use brake grease to lube the sliders after cleaning them. Check the boots over the pistons...if they are deteriorated...time for rebuilt calipers?

The other is a collapsed rubber flexline...these have a nylon (?) core that can overheat and melt closed...the application of the brakes overcomes the blockage...but the fluid cannot return to release the brakes. This can happen with a severely sticking caliper that produces a lot of heat.

If you think the brakes are loosening up some...might give it some time...might take time to overcome any corrosion in the piston or slider areas?


QUOTE=California98Civic;380701]Installed the clips. I did some low speed round-the-block testing. Maybe brake drag is reduced. I cannot tell for certain. Any improvement might be in the range of data noise? Or maybe that soft non-squealing metal on metal sandy -sound that I introduced is increasing drag. It's a very mild sound. But clearly one or two of the eight total possible contact points are in fact slightly skimming the rotors. Gotta go back in. Oh well. :turtle:

They should fit. Before installing I searched the part number on the bag "H6001." Raybestos indicates that these clips fit the "1998 Honda Civic". And Amazon lists them as fitting my DX exactly, though they oddly also highlight the EX/Si (no mention of HX).

So they should fit. The error is mine, right? Any advice welcomed...

[EDIT: on a ten mile each way half freeway trip I noticed all sounds seem to go away at higher speeds. Maybe just drowned out by road noise. But after driving a higher speeds the sounds are gone even at lower speeds. Sometimes felt like a super quiet amazing coaster on rails (no brake friction noise. Still, will fine tune.][/QUOTE]

California98Civic 07-22-2013 08:27 PM

Friends, I have a set of Raybestos brake drag reduction clips that cost me $7 and that I cannot use or return. :( So they're free to a good home if anyone wants them... first PM with an address gets them in the mail, on me.

They won't fit the DX, regardless what Amazon says. They are for the Sixth Gen EX or Si.

james

cbaber 07-22-2013 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by California98Civic (Post 381607)
Friends, I have a set of Raybestos brake drag reduction clips that cost me $7 and that I cannot use or return. :( So they're free to a good home if anyone wants them... first PM with an address gets them in the mail, on me.

They won't fit the DX, regardless what Amazon says. They are for the Sixth Gen EX or Si.

james

I have found you can't ever trust the "fit system" they have on ebay or amazon. These sites just don't have enough information specific to each trim to really tell you exact fitment. Did they not work at all? Are you going to try these, posted by xntrx? NAPA AUTO PARTS

This seems like a good idea if they actually function correctly. I am just skeptical since I have seen no real testing done so far (in this thread).

Ecky 07-24-2013 02:24 AM

Just put new rotors on my 'sol and came across this thread. I went by my local NAPA earlier and the guys there admitted to having read about them but said they hadn't received any and didn't know how to find them in their system.

California98Civic, did it not look possible to modify your clips to fit your calipers? What was the problem?

California98Civic 07-24-2013 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecky (Post 381824)
Just put new rotors on my 'sol and came across this thread. I went by my local NAPA earlier and the guys there admitted to having read about them but said they hadn't received any and didn't know how to find them in their system.

California98Civic, did it not look possible to modify your clips to fit your calipers? What was the problem?

They scraped the rotors a little. On the outside edge. And on the inside of one of the rotors itself. The tolerances are very small, so I was not sure I would have been able to fit them properly. It was also just about time. I'm currently also patching my roof (DIY), fixing my gas furnace (DIY), and working on a belly pan. I just decided to take my lumps and reduce the project load. I might try the NAPA part that is supposed to fit better. But that'll be later in the season.

Ecky 07-24-2013 12:49 PM

Used the post number from the linked item and had my Napa order a set for me, I'll report back when they're installed.

California98Civic 07-24-2013 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecky (Post 381892)
I'll report back when they're installed.

That would be cool, of course. +1

Ecky 07-25-2013 07:59 PM

Clips arrived at my NAPA overnight, came out to $10.00 after tax.

http://imageshack.us/a/img7/6080/ey58.jpg

First impression - the spring rate on these is pretty low, they can be bent between two fingers. I'm skeptical - I'd have used a thicker wire to make the spring, one that provides a bit more force.

Although it looks like I could slip them on with the center pointing outward, the manual wanted them facing inward, under the caliper.

http://imageshack.us/a/img545/8985/nqch.jpg

Removed the bolt opposite the brake line and swung the caliper up.

http://imageshack.us/a/img42/655/srrw.jpg

Spring-clip installed.

http://imageshack.us/a/img689/1613/ynvz.jpg

I've only done the fronts. This weekend I'll probably have a grand total of ~250 highway miles, I'll report back with my findings. If I don't notice an measurable improvement, I'll try fabricating my own out of some thicker material.

cbaber 07-25-2013 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecky (Post 382167)
Clips arrived at my NAPA overnight, came out to $10.00 after tax.

http://imageshack.us/a/img7/6080/ey58.jpg

First impression - the spring rate on these is pretty low, they can be bent between two fingers. I'm skeptical - I'd have used a thicker wire to make the spring, one that provides a bit more force.

Although it looks like I could slip them on with the center pointing outward, the manual wanted them facing inward, under the caliper.

http://imageshack.us/a/img545/8985/nqch.jpg

Removed the bolt opposite the brake line and swung the caliper up.

http://imageshack.us/a/img42/655/srrw.jpg

Spring-clip installed.

http://imageshack.us/a/img689/1613/ynvz.jpg

I've only done the fronts. This weekend I'll probably have a grand total of ~250 highway miles, I'll report back with my findings. If I don't notice an measurable improvement, I'll try fabricating my own out of some thicker material.

Did you spin the wheel before and after installation to see if there was any improvement that you could feel? I'm also skeptical of a spring that you can be bent with your fingers. The force needed to separate the brake pads is probably more than the spring can provide. I'm curious if cleaning and lubing the caliper would help the little spring out. Did the instructions mention anything about applying the springs to a brake caliper with 200k+ miles on it and how that brake dust buildup might effect the parts performance?

California98Civic 07-25-2013 09:31 PM

These are identical in packaging and apparent shape and instructions to the set I received from Raybestos:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecky (Post 382167)

But your brake assembly is significantly different in appearance:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecky (Post 382167)

I think you have a better fit, most likely. Looking forward to your results.

A test suggestion: Since the improvement if there is one will be too small to measure in FE and since ABA is a bit too tough, how about before and after video of the wheel spinning up on jack stands. Get the wheel to 15 or 20 MPH, hold it, let it glide to a stop. Video the wheel. See if the clips help the wheel spin even half a second longer.

Just a thought.

-james


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:04 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com