Did you see 'Who killed the electric car'?

[Xringer]

Remember the CARB guys?

They are baccccck!!

California Regulators Could Kill Plug-in Hybrid Conversions | Hybrid Cars

This time, they want to kill the plug-in Hybrid! And, California taxpayers are paying these guys big bucks!

[wagonman76]

Sounds like a bunch of hogwash. Say your no gas range is 40 miles like they estimate. If you go less than that before your next charge like most city dwellers would, the engine does not even fire up. Zero emissions. If it fires up every time you start the car, its going to create at least some emissions every time.

[Big Dave]

I keep telling you guys, regulators are the enemy.

[Xringer]

Yeah, any fool can tell you that if the ICE does not get a chance to turn on,
it's not going to pollute the air very much..

Or, if you have to drive 50 miles round-trip and the ICE fires up when coming home,
what's the difference if it warms up at 7AM or 4PM?? It's still warming up.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by Xringer

This time, they want to kill the plug-in Hybrid! And, California taxpayers are paying these guys big bucks!

They're just going to require testing, just like they do for CARB-legal performance parts. Besides, all they're requiring is that the PHEV conversion doesn't increase emissions and that everything still warrantied for 10years/150k miles. It doesn't look like they want to kill it, more like they want to insure that emissions and the consumer don't get killed by a PHEV conversion.

Air resources board engineers are recommending that plug-in hybrids undergo extensive cold-start emissions and gasoline-evaporation testing. According to agency documents, the tests could cost between $20,000 and $125,000 depending on the number of vehicles that CARB requests be tested by each company. The board's staff also wants to require the new companies to provide consumers with warranties for the changes they make to hybrids for up to ten years or 150,000 miles—despite the willingness of consumers to pay for conversions without the warranty.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by wagonman76

Sounds like a bunch of hogwash. Say your no gas range is 40 miles like they estimate. If you go less than that before your next charge like most city dwellers would, the engine does not even fire up. Zero emissions. If it fires up every time you start the car, its going to create at least some emissions every time.

If it will run on the conversion pack w/o kicking on the gasoline engine at all until the pack was depleted, then they wouldn't require testing. That's a no brainer. The problem is that AFAIK, none of the plug-in conversions do this, so what CARB wants is a test to insure that when interfacing w/ the vehicle's already present ECUs, their system does not change emissions at all compared to stock. Nothing more, nothing less. This is also because hybrids are smog exempt, so there would be no way to monitor if the PHEV conversions were messing w/ the current setup in a way that increases emissions. Then there's the requirement that they not violate the warranty, which is just protecting the consumer's rights.

[roflwaffle]

Oh, and CARB only stopped the ZEV mandate after the Bush administration stepped in on the side of GM and company who were suing the state about it, so that's all the automakers/Bush's buddies. CARB at least tried.

[Xringer]

"Air resources board engineers are recommending that plug-in hybrids undergo extensive cold-start emissions and gasoline-evaporation testing. According to agency documents, the tests could cost between $20,000 and $125,000 depending on the number of vehicles that CARB requests be tested by each company. The board's staff also wants to require the new companies to provide consumers with warranties for the changes they make to hybrids for up to ten years or 150,000 miles—despite the willingness of consumers to pay for conversions without the warranty."


"The new rules, which will be considered at CARB’s next meeting on January 22 and 23, will require small start-up companies offering plug-in conversion services to shoulder the costs of these expensive emissions tests."


I guess we have to watch the news to see what CARB going to do.

Since it cost $7,000 and $10,000 for the conversion, we have a
recession going on & gas is pretty cheap, those installers aren't getting rich these days.

It kind of makes me wonder why CARB wants to do this..
Since it's not going to be very long before cars come out of the factory
with a charge socket already installed.

The Plug-in business already has a limited shelf life. Making them give their earnings to the state, isn't going to help them any.

But, it might drive up the price of a conversion a few thousand bucks.

[roflwaffle]

They have to follow the same regulations anyone else modifying vehicles has had to for the past few decades. All those aftermarket parts manufacturers have been going through this process for decades. Even if it adds a couple grand to the cost of a conversion, from the consumer's POV I think that having someone stand behind a ~10 year/150k mile warranty would be worth the extra cost in the eyes of most. The point isn't for installers to get rich, but for the vehicles to have the same warranty and the same emissions spec.

[Xringer]

For sure they aren't going to get rich. It's more likely they will lose their shirts.

But, maybe that would lower the price of a plug-in for those people willing to
install a Kit from China they can buy off Ebay. There are a lot of DIY guys around these days.
And, a large part of the cost of a conversion job is the labor.

Yeah, I'll bet those DIY kits will start showing up this year..