Go Back   EcoModder Forum > Introductions
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-28-2019, 05:07 PM   #41 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 7,318
Thanks: 0
Thanked 754 Times in 667 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by teoman View Post
Also, could you inject the lpg with a gasoline injector? That would make it much easier to control for us computer oriented guys. I suppose one could have to read the pressure and the temperature of the lpg before injection.
It's working with direct-injection engines, enabling them to run solely on LPG instead of resorting to both port-injection for LPG and direct injection for a small amount of gasoline. With CNG on the other hand, there is always the need for a small amount of gasoline through the stock injectors, so CNG must go through port-injection. Volkswagen has that TGI engine which operates on CNG as the primary fuel through direct injection, but I don't know how the gasoline limp-home mode is enabled through the same injectors...


Quote:
Originally Posted by skyking View Post
When it works out, it is usually on pickups that have spare bed space and room for the plumbing
Or even some underbody setups, not taking space from the bed. I see a lot of those on trucks converted to CNG in my country (retaining their stock gasoline tank).


Quote:
Originally Posted by teoman View Post
Although i have most of the equipment, i do not want to mess around with CNG.

I am thinking low pressure natural gas, pumped with a small diaphram air pump.

Methane stored in an air mattress with roughly 200*100*20 cm dimensions. That would be 0.4 m^3 of volume or 0.4 liter diesel equivalent of volume. 40 cents worth of fuel.
Seems like you want to try something similar to those "gas bags" widely used with coal gas in Europe during WWII, and until the '90s on buses in China with methane in some provinces.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac Zackary View Post
Ok. So I'm seriously contemplating this for my 1.6L non-turbo 23:1 CR 1985 VW Golf diesel.

I consistently get about 55mpg gallon already on the highway. But perhaps what I'm more interested in is reducing emissions, black smoke, etc.

Any thoughts? How would this best be hooked up?

One problem I foresee is that on the Golf the air cleaner is in the top of the plenum. So if I add propane it would either have to be before the air cleaner or into each intake runner or I'd have to relocate the air cleaner.

Also this is mechanical injection. So I can't meter propane electronically by taking data off of an EFI system.
If you could work around some sort of a phase sensor, that would enable the sequential injection through each intake runner, which would be much more desirable as it would avoid wasting fuel during each valve overlap. But not every multi-port injection is sequential anyway...

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 08-28-2019, 05:50 PM   #42 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
teoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 1,029

A3 - '12 Audi A3
Thanks: 51
Thanked 140 Times in 118 Posts
I have to test the flow of my pumps and fabricate connectors and couplings for the gas line in the house, the pump , car and the sleeping matress.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2019, 07:08 AM   #43 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
teoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 1,029

A3 - '12 Audi A3
Thanks: 51
Thanked 140 Times in 118 Posts
Read a bit of literature. It seems ok on turbo charged common rail engines. (Marine engines under high load)

But ones that have pilot injection seems to be a no go. Or I have to inject under conditions where there is no pilot injection or tune it out.

Last edited by teoman; 08-29-2019 at 07:38 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 01:35 PM   #44 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
teoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 1,029

A3 - '12 Audi A3
Thanks: 51
Thanked 140 Times in 118 Posts
This article has some information on the subject.
https://kones.eu/ep/2016/vol23/no2/4...WIERZBICKI.pdf
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to teoman For This Useful Post:
RustyLugNut (09-03-2019)
Old 09-03-2019, 01:35 AM   #45 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: California
Posts: 106

Hyhoe - '08 Chevy Tahoe HY2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepdog 44 View Post
So if piping LPG into your engine helps (whether for power or FE) what about piping pure oxygen? An ember in pure oxygen will burst into a fire, and gas would presumable burn cleaner. Say just double the atmospheric percentage of o2.

I've always wondered what would happen if you drove a car in the prehistoric dinosaur era when they say we had a much richer oxygen atmosphere.
How will you generate all that extra oxygen? you will need a Lot of cubic feet /min

I mean liters min ...
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2019, 11:29 AM   #46 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 882
Thanks: 176
Thanked 302 Times in 215 Posts
Thank you for that link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teoman View Post
This article has some information on the subject.
https://kones.eu/ep/2016/vol23/no2/4...WIERZBICKI.pdf
It is a good summery of the technical problems and possible advantages of CNG dual fueling of a diesel engine.

And you are correct in stating the problem of multi-injection modes. You simply cannot fog extra gaseous fuel into the intake without having control of the injection timing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2019, 11:38 AM   #47 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 882
Thanks: 176
Thanked 302 Times in 215 Posts
It is a good idea . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahoe_Hybrid View Post
How will you generate all that extra oxygen? you will need a Lot of cubic feet /min

I mean liters min ...
. . . that was tried by a team leading up to the AutoXprize. But, carrying enough pure oxygen around is a problem they could not overcome.

The advantages are numerous. You can shrink your engine and still produce the same amount of power. You do not have to run the engine cool since nitrogen is not present to produce the pollutants. Your thermal efficiency is increased.

Oxygen concentrators can be used but they are large and cumbersome for the size of the engine. They are being tried with super-critical CO2 turbine cycles for utility scale power production.

https://www.powermag.com/what-are-su...-power-cycles/
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 03:29 AM   #48 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
teoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 1,029

A3 - '12 Audi A3
Thanks: 51
Thanked 140 Times in 118 Posts
There is another paper where they experiment with a marine tdi.

Efficiency went up from 37 to 39.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2019, 11:43 PM   #49 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: ABQ
Posts: 7

shaggin waggin - '12 VW Jetta Sportwagen
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Vaporizer

Installing a vaporizer i picked up from badgerland performance tomorrow. Currently only upgrades to engine are a malone stage 2 tune & hi-flow exhaust. Starting boost setting will be 7.5 psi and 7/16" of threads showing on the sparge tube. I will let you all know how it goes and what bennies if any are obtained. Hoping for more mpg's and better overall performance.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2019, 02:27 AM   #50 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
teoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 1,029

A3 - '12 Audi A3
Thanks: 51
Thanked 140 Times in 118 Posts
Mind giving us a bit more info on the setupV

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com