Dieselgate 2.0 Cummins and Ram

[Isaac Zachary]

I say a YouTube video a while back where someone was explaining how to best take care of a modern diesel. Long distance driving was best, and he also said in a diesel you want as much heat as possible to the exhaust components and recommended wrapping the exhaust, especially if the vehicle is used in cold weather.

An ideal two car setup IMO could be a diesel truck, van or SUV for long distance driving, hauling and those other odd occasions and an EV hatchback or sedan for the daily drive around town.

[JSH]

The cost has jumped to $2 billion. Cummins has agreed to pay for $350 million in projects to reduce emissions.

That $2 billion also doesn't cover the cost to recall all the vehicles and fix them. Cummins must mix 85% of the effected vehicles within 3 years or face more fines.

[redpoint5]

Curious how Cummins is liable since they just make motors? It's up to the manufacturers to put all the pieces together and not develop test defeat strategies.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Curious how Cummins is liable since they just make motors? It's up to the manufacturers to put all the pieces together and not develop test defeat strategies.

Light duty - yes - but these are all over 14,000 lbs with different rules.

"US and California regulations do not require that complete heavy-duty diesel vehicles be chassis certified, instead requiring certification of their engines (as an option, complete heavy-duty diesel vehicles under 14,000 lbs can be chassis certified). Consequently, the basic standards are expressed in g/bhp·hr and require emission testing over the FTP engine dynamometer cycle"

From: Diesel Net which has everything you would ever want to know about emissions.

This is the tip of the iceberg. If Cummins was cheating on 6.7L engines installed in Ram products no doubt they were cheating on 6.7L engines installed in other products like school busses, step vans, and box trucks.

[Isaac Zachary]

Sounds like the handwriting is on the wall for diesel. It was fun while it lasted. Good bye diesel!

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by JSH

Light duty - yes - but these are all over 14,000 lbs with different rules.

I'm not understanding yet. Cummins makes the motors, not the particulate filters or the urea injectors, or the wheel sensors, or any of the other sensors that inform a vehicle that it's on a dyno or open road. How are they responsible for any of that? They don't even make the fuel pumps that feed the fuel to the motor. Bosch makes those.

Culpability would fall on whoever programs the ECU to operate differently depending on dyno vs normal operation.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I'm not understanding yet. Cummins makes the motors, not the particulate filters or the urea injectors, or the wheel sensors, or any of the other sensors that inform a vehicle that it's on a dyno or open road. How are they responsible for any of that? They don't even make the fuel pumps that feed the fuel to the motor. Bosch makes those.

Culpability would fall on whoever programs the ECU to operate differently depending on dyno vs normal operation.

When we buy an engine from Cummins for one of our vehicles it is purchased as a turnkey package. That package includes everything from the intake including the aftertreatment, fuel pump, and ECM mapping. There are years of testing and development that we pay them many, many millions of dollars to do for us. Cummins certifies the engine as a complete package and we can make no modifications to it.

The fuel pump comes installed on the engine. Bosch is a subcontractor to Cummins


EDIT: Again, 14,000 lb GVW is a key defining line. The rules are different above and below that rating. You are describing how things work under 14,000 lbs.

[redpoint5]

Thank you for the clarification.

As an aside, I hardly care what the emissions are on big rigs. 85% of their miles (you'll correct my wild guess) is out in the middle of nowhere. If they can get 5% better fuel economy at the expense of particulate emissions, seems like a good tradeoff to me.

Perhaps the ultimate would be location sensitive emissions. No urea injection and particulate filtering in the middle of nowhere Wyoming, but full controls in gridlock traffic on the 405 in LA.

I'm not against emission control schemes, only against them when they don't matter.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Thank you for the clarification.

As an aside, I hardly care what the emissions are on big rigs. 85% of their miles (you'll correct my wild guess) is out in the middle of nowhere. If they can get 5% better fuel economy at the expense of particulate emissions, seems like a good tradeoff to me.

That is a common misconception. Only 13% of trips are long haul (over 500 miles) The vast majority - 77% - are short haul (under 200 miles) That is for Class 7 and 8.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by JSH

That is a common misconception. Only 13% of trips are long haul (over 500 miles) The vast majority - 77% - are short haul (under 200 miles) That is for Class 7 and 8.

Trips, or miles? Most of the vehicular weight I see on long trips are big rigs, and most of the vehicular weight I see in cities is cars and trucks. Intracity hauling would more commonly utilize smaller vehicles, while longer hauls would use larger ones.