DIY suspension generator / regenerator

[Nevyn]

Originally Posted by theunchosen

IF you did it the high-teck MITten way you could get an extra 3-4 miles per hour. You'd get roughly an extra KWHr/Hr and as far as I can tell thats 3-4 miles. Its not huge but it really is free, like sunshine.

If you did it the really easy way with coils around the springs and a magnet mounted on a shaft inside the springs you'd probably get about half that. . .but you could do that whereas the hydraulic fluid and. . .would be heavy and not easy. Better off just spending the time and money you would spend on that system and getting a truly enormous magnet for each coil.

I might test this out this weekend. . .depending on what ends up needing fixed at the shop this weekend.

"I have to go drive the Electro-Metro over some speed bumps to recharge it. Back in a few..."

[stevet47]

OK... a thought here. Ignoring the hydraulic fluid idea (for simplicities sake) and sticking with the electrical design, this wouldn't be able to actually act as a shock (no dampening effect) it would have to be in addition to traditional shocks. So what if we mounted 1 end of the electrical "shock" to the chassis, and the other end to a pivot, with the pivot being connected to the axle/a-arm, etc. The hardcore desert offroad guys do this when they want huge travel number in the rear without cutting the bed up for long shocks, they use a pivot so that they can run shorter shocks for the same travel, we would want the opposite, more travel (of the electric shock) then the car is actually moving.

[Piwoslaw]

Originally Posted by stevet47

OK... a thought here. Ignoring the hydraulic fluid idea (for simplicities sake) and sticking with the electrical design, this wouldn't be able to actually act as a shock (no dampening effect) it would have to be in addition to traditional shocks.

I thought this would be the dampener. Producing an electrical current requires work, so there would be a force slowing the up-and-down motion of the wheel.

[DonR]

The linear generator will provide resistance based on velocity, creating a damping affect. Due to the complex valving inside of modern shock absorbers, which open & close valves based on velocity as well as bypass valving based on piston position, I dont think you can eliminate the regular damper. I also don't think you can eliminate the alternator, but the load certainly can be reduced.

You could use a linkage to increase the movement of the linear generator.
Neodemium magnets would be a nice touch.

Don

[Blue Bomber Man]

I like the idea of replacing the dampers in the suspension with a system that forces the hydraulics through a generator setup. It could easily be designed to generate electricity regardless of the direction of travel with some creative use of diodes in the circuitry design.

I wonder how Bose's Linear motor suspension system works. It may produce electricity when it hits bumps, but I don't know for sure. All I know is that it is said to create the smoothest ride around. I think Mercedes is going to be licensing it.

[Daox]

It would be very easy to make the hydraulic motor only spin one way. The use of a few check valves does this. I can draw a diagram if ya want.

[theunchosen]

Actually. . .the amount of dampening you create out of the linear motion magnetic and coil is directly proportioanl to magnet strength.

Its how roller coaster breaks work. they use the rails as conductive surface and place ridiculous near .1 gauss magnets(broken up into sections to create slow deceleration).

The amount of power you create is directly proportional to the amount of power needed to push.

If you don't think the dampening can be had go try and push the shaft on a generator while its hooked up to something(a light bulb). Its entirely possible to do this in a way so that the springs are bypassed and the wheels only move a few cm up or down.

The amount of dampening is again directly proportional to the strength of your magnets and the amount of coil(really the amount of power).

[stevet47]

I'm not saying you guys are wrong about the dampening effect, but I don't think you are right either. lol Please explain to me how a magnet inside of a coil of wire produces any sort of dampening.

A magnet inside of a coil of wire creates no dampening or resistance when it moves in the coil (like a shaker flashlight). I mocked one up quick today, a couple of neo magnets inside of a coil of wire. Shook it, and it made about 80mV.

As far as I can tell you guys are comparing this to a motor, or linear motor where you are putting electricity though the coil which will create dampening when you slide a magnet through the coil, because you are really just making an electro magnet. But that isn't what would be happening here.

[theunchosen]

When you create current in any form of wiring you create EMF.

Its called self-induction. You create current in a wire with a magnet. The instant after you do that the wire creates an opposing EMF in the opposite direction, equal to a substantial fraction of the force you originally issued to the magnet.

To discover how this works out we use a quick check with a "right hand rule." If you point your thumb in the direction of positive current and your palm on the coil your fingers will curve in the direction of the EMF provided from the coil(if you run power through it).

If you run a magnet through the coil it will generate a current. . .and the flow will force a self-induced EMF in the opposite direction of the travel of the magnet.

The resistance I'm speaking of is how alot of dials work, specifically the ones in analog volt, amp meters.

The amount of EMF self-inducted resistance is proportional to 2 things. The power created from the original EMF flow and the material of the wiring. A theoretical perfect wire would perfectly oppose the EMF and it wouldn't move. But we do not know of any such perfect element, nor do we have any perfect wires of elements we do have. If you doubt the dampening effect I can give you a quick lab to demonstrate it.

Get a conductive metal sheet and hang it on a rope. swing it like a pendulum.

Repeat but place two large magnets on either side(not close enough to tough and viced down). If it swung 10 times before slowing substantially it will make it through. . .maybe 3-4 passes before essentially stopping.

The stop time is even greater if you use a copper wire on the end and run a diode or a couple of diodes at the pivot for the rope. To prove that it has nothing to do with the magnets attracting the metal take the metal and drill holes in the metal to make it look like swiss cheese. repeat. The swiss cheesed metal will swing as long as the metal with no magnets. The reason is its not generating true electric current(since its not a coil and you aren't using the electricity) its generating an eddy current. The current is flowing in the metal and making it warm and resisting motion and thats it. The holes kill the eddy currents of the EMF generated electron front. A rope with a winding of copper coils in the same experiment(much harder because you have to make sure the magnet doesn't actually touch the coil and it needs to go through the middle) will do the same thing.

If you want something else. . .Go try and turn your alternator with the battery disconnected and the lights on. Turn the lights off and try it.

Also if self-induced EMF didn't exist, every generator on the planet would violate the 1st law of thermodynamics as well as most statements of the 2nd. The joints in high power applications like power plant turbines are extremely low friction because it costs them alot to run and they want to squeeze every penny they can. If you disconnected those turbines and cut the flow off they would spin for at least an hour down from 3600 rpm. While connected to the grid it takes just minutes depending how big the generator is.

[stevet47]

Yea, your right, that makes sense. And turning a motor with a load is definitely harder than turning a motor without a load. I've never experienced this in a linear sense though... I guess the things I have used just are not robust enough for me to really sense the dampening.

On that note, in order to dampen a car, wouldn't you need some serious power coming out of this thing?