Do we really need all that safety stuff?

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

I have already seen many French cars with 3-lug wheels

Was it originally 4-lugs, but one broke immediately?

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

Was it originally 4-lugs, but one broke immediately?

No, the Citroen 2CV had 3-lug wheels.



This twin engined 4x4 Sahara is a prime example.
Also, note the spare on the hood and the filler cap under the drivers seat Guess where the second engine was?

[oldtamiyaphile]

More recently the old Smart ForTwo had three stud wheels.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

3-lug wheels had been a common feature on French economy cars until late-80s to early-90s, and even some Renault-based Ford cars made in Brazil had it.

[Fat Charlie]

I thought the plant had gone on strike before the #4 lug nut installer got back from lunch.

[niky]

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

I thought the plant had gone on strike before the #4 lug nut installer got back from lunch.

We're talking Germans here, not Italians.

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by niky

We're talking Germans here, not Italians.

Ah, so, the cause was lager not wine!

[Grant-53]

As someone who trained as a mechanical engineer and worked in the auto parts industry for a number of years I find this discussion rather amusing at times. The intersection of marketing and regulation has made for some great stories over the years. My favorite is the ignition seat belt interlock saga. Feds wanted a fleet of cars to test the effectiveness of having the seat belt locked before the ignition would engage. The car company sent the fleet to a government car pool. Nobody liked it and no surprise the proposed regulation was dropped. Sound regulations establish fitness for use and are to apply equally to all producers. Trouble comes when someone wants to gain an advantage at the expense of others. Disinformation becomes the method of persuasion whether it is food, medicine, cars, fire arms, or any other consumer product. The difficulty you and I may have is it not easy to determine the actual quality of a product before buying it.

The cost of a product and the selling price are somewhat linked. The gross margin in many industries is 35%. Cars such as the early Corvair and Pinto would not have had the problems they did if the required $100 parts had been included. In the case of the Corvair suspension it was a rear sway bar. In the case of the Pinto it was a plastic gas tank shield. Neither part is very heavy or very expensive but competitive price thinking put profits ahead of quality. For those knowledgeable people here on Ecomodder it is quite possible to build a safe and durable vehicle that gets twice the current fuel economy as a production model. Laws and standards can change with technological improvements if we are thoughtful and persistent in our efforts. Pennsylvania repealed the motorcycle helmet law. New York needs to update its motorized bicycle laws and repeal some gun laws. Pay attention to the vehicle crash test videos and the SAE articles. If you don't like air bags then disconnect them in favor of a five point harness and a helmet. Just don't be stupid and assume you will never crash.

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by Grant-53

As someone who trained as a mechanical engineer and worked in the auto parts industry for a number of years I find this discussion rather amusing at times. The intersection of marketing and regulation has made for some great stories over the years. My favorite is the ignition seat belt interlock saga. Feds wanted a fleet of cars to test the effectiveness of having the seat belt locked before the ignition would engage. The car company sent the fleet to a government car pool. Nobody liked it and no surprise the proposed regulation was dropped. Sound regulations establish fitness for use and are to apply equally to all producers. Trouble comes when someone wants to gain an advantage at the expense of others. Disinformation becomes the method of persuasion whether it is food, medicine, cars, fire arms, or any other consumer product. The difficulty you and I may have is it not easy to determine the actual quality of a product before buying it.

The cost of a product and the selling price are somewhat linked. The gross margin in many industries is 35%. Cars such as the early Corvair and Pinto would not have had the problems they did if the required $100 parts had been included. In the case of the Corvair suspension it was a rear sway bar. In the case of the Pinto it was a plastic gas tank shield. Neither part is very heavy or very expensive but competitive price thinking put profits ahead of quality. For those knowledgeable people here on Ecomodder it is quite possible to build a safe and durable vehicle that gets twice the current fuel economy as a production model. Laws and standards can change with technological improvements if we are thoughtful and persistent in our efforts. Pennsylvania repealed the motorcycle helmet law. New York needs to update its motorized bicycle laws and repeal some gun laws. Pay attention to the vehicle crash test videos and the SAE articles. If you don't like air bags then disconnect them in favor of a five point harness and a helmet. Just don't be stupid and assume you will never crash.

Two-word automotive summary: "Tombstone Mentality"

• bottomline = profits over everything else.
• bottomline = stockholder/management-driven "bonus" plans.

[some_other_dave]

Originally Posted by Grant-53

Feds wanted a fleet of cars to test the effectiveness of having the seat belt locked before the ignition would engage. The car company sent the fleet to a government car pool. Nobody liked it and no surprise the proposed regulation was dropped.

Actually, the regulation was adopted, at least for some period of time. I own a car whose original equipment does indeed prevent the key from starting the engine if the seat belts for occupied seats are not fastened. It's a 1974 model year car--but that "feature" has been disabled for at least a couple of decades in mine...

-soD