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-   -   "dual vtec" "3 stage vtec" please share what you know! (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/dual-vtec-3-stage-vtec-please-share-what-30181.html)

vrmouseyd15b 10-06-2014 09:26 PM

"dual vtec" "3 stage vtec" please share what you know!
 
379Kcivic P.M.'d me asking this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by 379Kcivic

1. If a '92-95 Civic sedan would be a doable candidate for the 3-stage engine?
2. And if so; which model would be simpler, LX or EX?

My commute is a pretty flat stretch of highway 75 miles round trip and have been thinking of this build.
For highway, I'm guessing the aero on your newer sedan is better than on the '92-95 models as to probably offset the slight weight gain. I've ruled out the VX motor simply because of the lower 92 hp rating. Done lots of reading and my concern is the p2j ecu for the manual as well as being about to wire an 'econo' light and keep it looking factory. Rambling!!! THANKS, TROY


1. I would say yes, at least I believe so
2. That's a tricky one to answer. You will have to change a bit of wiring either way, so in my opinion, either one will do just fine (I'd go for the cheaper one, but I'm a cheap-skate)

I invite the community to help me answer 379Kcivic's questions, and I'm going to put some stuff up to my photobucket so I can share my 3 stage / dual vtec info as well.

I'm also going to invite 379Kcivic to the thread and hopefully, we can all learn a little "sumpin-sumpin":thumbup:

vrmouseyd15b 10-06-2014 09:53 PM

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/...pse6aaa447.jpg



http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/...ps635acb00.jpg

first stage vtec is the green wire "m" , middle stage vtec is the red wire "h", "wild cam" operates both solenoids together.


My jdm 37820-p2j-j62 ecu was dirt cheap on e-bay (about $70 shipped)
JDM Honda Civic D15B OBD2 vtec Automatic CVT 37820 P2J J63 ECU ECM 37820 P2J J62 | eBay
(just an example, but they do have %100 positive feedback)

Here is a walk-around of my engine (jdm d15b dual vtec w/ lean burn) - and yes, I have moved the IAC into the cab now! For the ecomodders!: http://youtu.be/XRLtgu7iqa0

Then you might want to see my "lean burn indicator" and go for a little drive: Lean burn - YouTube

I'll have to get some more of my wiring info up to photobucket and post it here as well...

victor.

Chrysler kid 10-06-2014 10:16 PM

The easiest would be an ex sedan as it already comes with VTEC unless you are referring to canadian trim levels


You get the best economy from deleting VTEC, but your engine would also make less power than a standard non VTEC engine because it uses 1 very economical can setting and one aggressive setting. So you would be on Eco mode all the time by deleting it

Cobb 10-06-2014 10:24 PM

They say the gen 2 insight does something like this but with 1 valve. It has a low lift, high lift and no lift for when coasting.

IMA assist is partly based on accelerator position, so if you can stick the engine in low lift mode once the engine reaches its limit you will get more assist with more throttle.

vrmouseyd15b 10-06-2014 10:28 PM

true, but that's why I love ecomodding! I can have my cake and eat it too!

With this motor and ecu combo, AS LONG AS I can keep my foot out of the gas, it does surprisingly well, especially since I've installed the "GUIDO"

I'm personally not going to disable vtec's, because the jdm ecu does a test on start-up. it actually checks for BOTH solenoids, if either one is missing, CEL AND NO LEAN BURN. But with a light foot, or a hand throttle (http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...vic-30097.html) the impossible seems possible!

That and the "wild cam" vtec hits like a boss, and I LOVE IT!!!
I'm looking at another 50mpg average tank! (weather and wind, please behave)

thanks,
victor

Chrysler kid 10-06-2014 10:34 PM

Your lean burn indicator is very cool, but its more of a indicator of the stage 1 VTEC right?

On my hx its more or less of a dummy light as the computer only knows to turn the light off if the rpms match the vehicle speed settings in its highest gear. The light comes on in neutral as long as throttle input is minimal and turns off based on if VTEC engages (which is based on throttle %). Its basically just saying hey I'm not engaging the secondary camshaft settings so you can get good gas mileage

Oh and my apologies I just read up on the 3 stage VTEC and it definitely has more of a power band, basically 3 throttle based cam settings

So to rephrase VTEC and power ratings should not dictate fuel economy standards

vrmouseyd15b 10-06-2014 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysler kid (Post 449268)
Your lean burn indicator is very cool, but its more of a indicator of the stage 1 VTEC right?

nope. it's a true lean burn indicator. it will stay on even above the 8v "no vtec" into the 16v 1st stage vtec with load changes. for example, going over a hill (overpass) it will sometimes "bump" into 16v mode. the motor pitch changes, the mpg's drop, the vtec opens, and I climb the "hill" better. not until I cross the ~40% mark on the throttle does the econo light go out.

this is 80mph with a vx tranny and lean burn:
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3059fcc2.jpg

same motor& ecu, LX tranny 80 mph.http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/...ps65317a49.jpg


those were before the "guido"... but still, well above the d15z1's lean burn window, if I'm not mistaken. Remember I run a jdm ecu - they have different rules (which I don't fully understand!):D

vrmouseyd15b 10-06-2014 10:59 PM

hx/vx has a "shift light".

Chrysler kid 10-06-2014 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vrmouseyd15b (Post 449272)
hx/vx has a "shift light".

Gotcha.

Post up your pin out on the ecu, surprisingly there is very little info on the lean burn system. The only reason I know my cars is purely a shift light is because it always operates whenever the car is running, cold or hot.

Would be cool If I could pin mine and have both. And the JDM ecu didn't have any emission standards so it should be much easier to get into lean burn.

Chrysler kid 10-06-2014 11:21 PM

Also this question surprisingly hasn't been asked according to Google, why is the hx the only model of the sixth gen civic to have an egr valve? For some reason I thought lean burn was the egr valve opening to mix in a hotter cycle of air to mix with less fuel

Thanks again for all the helpful info, it is the main reason I joined this site. Other forums only relate to horse power and not effeciency


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