E85 in a non flex-fuel vehicle

[jtbo]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

You don't reduce compression when turboing a diesel... that I know of anyway. That's common practice for gassers.

Not always, sometimes yes, if you have 21:1 compression ratio (NA diesel) Turbo diesels are usually 16-19:1. If one wants to use E85 and convert it with spark plugs and all that, I don't think that 21:1 with turbo will work?

In study they had turbo diesel TDI engine and that has 16.5:1 compression I guess?

So to get it to work, it is perhaps needed to lower compression a bit to level they had in that study?

That is why I would like to read whole study to learn more parameters from it so I could tell what would be needed with application in my mind.

[Frank Lee]

Interesting...

[drmiller100]

Originally Posted by jtbo

Not always, sometimes yes, if you have 21:1 compression ratio (NA diesel) Turbo diesels are usually 16-19:1. If one wants to use E85 and convert it with spark plugs and all that, I don't think that 21:1 with turbo will work?

In study they had turbo diesel TDI engine and that has 16.5:1 compression I guess?

So to get it to work, it is perhaps needed to lower compression a bit to level they had in that study?

That is why I would like to read whole study to learn more parameters from it so I could tell what would be needed with application in my mind.

trying to run a diesel on ethanol is not going to work.

[Arctic Fox]

Yes it will.

[drmiller100]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

There isn't any approval process for parts to be considered safe for E85 use.
Let me know if I missed something.

d.

98 percent of the gasoline sold in the United States today has ethanol in it. A solvent (like ethanol) eats through whatever it is going to eat through pretty much regardless of concentration.

Therefore, fuel lines, tanks, filters, etc. sold in the United States for the past 30 years have been safe with Ethanol.

Regards,
Doug

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by tailgunner

trying to run a diesel on ethanol is not going to work.

You need to get out more. A VW diesel has been converted to E85 in the lab and some are trying to bring that to the street.

Therefore, fuel lines, tanks, filters, etc. sold in the United States for the past 30 years have been safe with Ethanol.

1988 is when everything had to be ethanol compatible, but why quibble over six years (except if you are wondering about something built between '82 and '88)?

[jtbo]

Originally Posted by drmiller100

trying to run a diesel on ethanol is not going to work.

Scania has diesel that uses ethanol.

However if you read carefully, I was referring to EPA study and asking source or link to that, as in that study diesel is made not diesel, by installing spark plugs, and making engine to more or less gasoline engine, except compression is not touched, which is rather interesting as compression is very high.

So even originally motor would be diesel, it would not be diesel after changes. Scania's way of doing it is completely different of course, better not to get that mixed too much into this, but here is link, it is really old news, but some might have missed it.

Green Car Congress: Scania Extending Heavy-Duty Ethanol Engine Technology to Trucks

[Allch Chcar]

The DOE study used a sparkplug at low loads, Scania uses sky high compression 29:1 or something with E95. I might have had the link to the DOE study but I dunno I if I still have it.

Edit: I don't.

[jtbo]

Here is SAE study:
http://www.nord-com.net/stoni/docs/SuTCAF.pdf

One of challenges would be EGR sizing.

Scania's E95 bus diesel cycle motors use apparently 26:1 compression ratio, fuel is bit special and as one can't use normal diesel pump, injectors etc. it is not so interesting as coverting diesel to spark plugs and having E85 as fuel.

Consumption will be more than with diesel fuel, because E85 will have less energy, but with turbo diesel difference would be only by amount of energy difference in fuel, but less consumption than converted gasoline motor.

Here it is illegal to make one's own E85 of course, like everything else is illegal, you always need to buy everything, very strong no to anything you do yourself, so that reduces a lot of savings compared to guys in US and other countries with legislation tuned for more individual rights than gov control. So better check the law before hoping to get relatively low cost transportation.

[trooper Tdiesel]

an auto that uses
E85, LPG and or CNG would be a good mix...

all 100+ octane fuels...