EGR upgrades, intercooler?

[slugbeast]

I was cleaning the egr ports on my honda crx hf, a common procedure unfortunately, and thought upon how the system as a whole could be improved after noticing some things about it.

I noticed there is a coolant that runs along side the egr valve ports to cool the manifold, now I don't know if that is to cool the hot gasses from the egr system or if it is just to keep the intake manifold from getting too hot. IF there is a major advantage to cooling recirculated exhaust gas (to prevent engine knock) could you recirculate MORE exhaust gas if you hooked a turbo intercooler/radiator or perhaps water injection to the egr system?

I would be very interested in the math involved in finding out how much gas savings could be gained from these and I suppose leaning it out further and advancing the timing as well. And the nox emissions too, as that tends to go hand in hand with leaning mixture. we can all agree Nitric oxide is bad I'm sure...

Also the possibly less hair brained idea... what if you hooked up a bubbler like filter box before the egr valve to the system that you could just put clean water in every oil change or something instead of ripping apart the entire intake manifold every 80,000 miles. I think that it would be something like a downsized "scrubber" used at coal fire power plants and the like.

[mwebb]

the coolant that circulates near the EGR may be used to
heat the intake manifold
as with many of the engines that have oil coolers with coolant circulating in them .
the coolant serves two purposes
to cool a hot system
and
to heat a cold system

because the system pollutes less when it gets to operating temp sooner .

_____________
oil
the dogshnit oil that many people think is ok to use
has low quality additives which cook out of the oil then tend to deposit out in the system in places that cause damage to the system
piston ring lands
EGR plumbing
PCV plumbing
the backs of intake valves on DI systems
and
last
but
not
least
Catalytic Converters

that s right , there i said it ,
AGAIN
dogshnit oil kills cat converters and engines

so
stop using dogshnit oil

start using oils that meet
BOTH
the viscosity specification for your system
and
oils that have
ACEA A3 B3 , A3 B4 specification .

when you do
you will find less ASH deposits in your EGR .

until you do
nothing will change

[slugbeast]

hmm cheap sludgy oil could easily contribute to carbon build up, I never considered that as a factor. The motor has gone a couple hundred thousand miles since the last rebuild, there could be a fair amount of blow-by.

I think I'll switch the car over to a decent synthetic and take the egr off in a year or so and see if it changes, maybe I'll even remember to report my findings here.

[Piwoslaw]

Slugbeast, it is possible that you have an EGR cooler. The general idea is that more EGR should lower fuel consumption, in a petrol engine of course. Cooling EGR gasses reduces their volume, allowing more to be packed into the cylinder. Here is a discussion:
Increasing EGR flow for better mileage

[slugbeast]

Excellent! Good thread, I'm going to read through all of it. I'm happy other people have had the same idea as me, now maybe I can actually do some sort of project since I have something to go on. thanks for finding it for me.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by slugbeast

if you hooked a turbo intercooler/radiator ... to the egr system?

Why not just buy an EGR cooler?

Image Search Results for EGR cooler

I see them all the time when digging around the stainless steel pile at the scrap yard.
On diesels EGR hurts milage under most conditions. So the EGR system gets tossed a lot of times.

[Phantom]

One of the features of an EGR cooler (will coolant connected) is the exhaust gas will help warm the coolant.

[Piwoslaw]

Originally Posted by Phantom

One of the features of an EGR cooler (will coolant connected) is the exhaust gas will help warm the coolant.

Unfortunately, in most (if not all) cases the EGR valve doesn't open until the engine has slightly warmed up. It may have to do with the gasses condensing

[WesternStarSCR]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Why not just buy an EGR cooler?

Image Search Results for EGR cooler

I see them all the time when digging around the stainless steel pile at the scrap yard.
On diesels EGR hurts milage under most conditions. So the EGR system gets tossed a lot of times.

Ok, I have gm lx9 v6, 3.5 liter, gasoline, regular egr (not cooled). Decent amount of room near heater hoses to add a small egr cooler from perhaps a 1.9 VW tdi? I can use SS corrugated line from home depot to splice into current egr Pipe, and splice into heater hose for coolant.

Question is not can it be done. eBay has lots of these VW assemblies for 50 to 75$. I have seen Mazda owners on their forums use the small diameter Natural Gas lines as flexible egr pipes. so given the time and funds, I see it as doable.

So, with no ECM mods, does cooling EGR have mpg, emissions, or engine durability benefits? I know Ford EcoBoost and Mazda SkyActiv use cooled EGR in their systems. They would have the ECM programmed with cooled egr assumed, unlike my stock ECM.

So my question to other ecomodders is a one of benefits to adding a cooler to a car and ecm that was designed with a non cooled condition on the inert gas coming in and displacing the A/F mix? I have MAF and air temp sensor just after air filter, and MAP in intake manifold. So how does ECM know the combined charge air temp inside IM once egr is mixed in? Or does it not matter?

I know the general benefits of EGR for gasoline engines, after reading much. So I am glad I have the system. Just trying to see if it can be improved, ah, Wolfsburg style...

[slugbeast]

The ECM would have a base formula of some kind to know when the egr is opened, how much recirculated gas to expect. It can't correct on its own, the egr gas is released post maf sensor. If someone could expand on what I think I know that might be helpful though... Perhaps the 02 sensor plays a role.

If I'm theorizing right, simply adding a cooler would increase the volume of recirculated exhaust gas. Since the gas is cooled and not heated It would lean out the mixture slightly, but then again the gas is cooled I don't think it would increase risk of detonation.

I can see it having emissions benefits, lowering the combustion temperature could be good for engine durability but then it would take a little longer to reach peak operating temperature... all negligible. To get the MPG benefits I was going for you would have to increase the volume of gas more significantly than just an egr cooler, like a bigger egr valve and a control unit to tell it to open it more and then trick the ecm to tell the car to lean it out even further. Or maybe release the exhaust gas pre-MAF? It would get fouled up pretty quick, maybe even add an in line filter in there like off of a snorkeled jeep type deal.