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Old 03-23-2021, 01:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Motors are pretty much rated class H insulation which IIRC, is about 180 degree C. And yes tesla motors have insulated windings. Bit warmer than a typical ICE but overall transfer should be much less because there's no fire to contain (exhaust)

Most of your organic solvents either boil off/outgass at 100C but they also like +80 degrees F

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Old 03-23-2021, 01:56 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The inverter IGBTs don't like being hot, 60 degrees is too hot, 40 degrees is upper limit of what you want. So there is a low temperature differential, peltier coolers or water sprays may be a solution.
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Old 03-23-2021, 02:02 PM   #13 (permalink)
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The ICE engines are self-purging of most of the heat through the exhaust. The air (or Heaven forfend, water) cooling only has to handle the excess.
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Old 03-23-2021, 02:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Aluminium diffuser, multiple fins/strakes in. How much additional cooling could that generate? Click image for larger version

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ID:	30326 With 1.5m *1.2m diffuser with a few fins that could be as much as 1/3-1/4 celcius per watt. By my estimates with a large enough diffuser with enough airflow and fins there could actually be enough to cool an electric motor controller, not sure about the motor though.
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Old 03-23-2021, 03:31 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Skin radiators were found wanting for ICE engines in the 1920-30s. Frank Lockhart and some airplanes.


https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hz1tdn5ms...28LSR%2529.jpg

Suppose you have the diffuser and the hood?
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Old 03-23-2021, 04:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Skin radiators were found wanting for ICE engines in the 1920-30s. Frank Lockhart and some airplanes.


https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hz1tdn5ms...28LSR%2529.jpg

Suppose you have the diffuser and the hood?
Lockhart's car used iced water cooling for the engine. (I cover it in my upcoming book.) The finned section you can see was for the charge air.
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Old 03-23-2021, 04:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ME_Andy View Post
EVs don't have the air intake, so that may be where your "proportional" qualifier comes into play. But the air intake is small compared to the radiator, I think.
Plenty of EVs have air intakes. "Proportional' simply means the increase in drag caused by the cooling system compared with the overall drag of the car.

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Obviously the overall drag on ICE cars is much higher and they require more cooling (larger grills). I'm with Neil-- I don't quite buy it.
Well, one good thing about engineering is that it is not about beliefs!

The published data on the two EVs I have mentioned showed what I have described. That's based on wind tunnel testing. I'd love to see some other measured data, but that's all I have been able to find.

The diagram I have of the Taycan's cooling system shows two radiators, one each side at the front. They are about the size of those found in internal combustion engine Porsches.
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Old 03-23-2021, 04:35 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I just did an image search for Tesla Model S radiator and found plenty of pics showing this sort of thing:



The above image doesn't show the central heat exchanger (below):

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Old 03-23-2021, 04:38 PM   #19 (permalink)
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www.hemmings.com: After 90 years, the mystery of what caused Frank Lockhart's Stutz Black Hawk crash remains unsolved

My theory is that the front wheel pants wrap too far forward and with the center of pressure ahead of the kingpin they self-steered in gusting winds. Velomobile racers put a fence on the nose to suppress the effect.
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Old 03-23-2021, 04:48 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Skin radiators were found wanting for ICE engines in the 1920-30s. Frank Lockhart and some airplanes.


https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hz1tdn5ms...28LSR%2529.jpg

Suppose you have the diffuser and the hood?
IC engines producing 10kW of propulsive power would produce 40kW of heat, of which maybe 20kW would be exhaust heat and 20kW would be coolant heat, whereas an electric car producing 10kW of propulsive power would produce 200w of heat in the controller. And maybe 1kW in the motor, so I think there is a large difference.

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