Elio Motors, The Next Big Thing?!!...

[jkv357]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Power requirements for such a small light vehicle should be modest and not require much in the way of complexity.

That's a good point. Making too much power would cause other design and mechanical issues, requiring larger this and stronger that.

For a vehicle like the Elio, too much power and acceleration could make it too challenging for the average driver to handle.

No reason to get carried away looking for performance at this point.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by adam728

VVT gives you just that, variable valve timing. ...

Agreed - partially. It allows a small capacity engine to be tuned to a high output, whilst providing low end torque. It has to be designed in and not just an add-in but it does make a difference.

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Power requirements for such a small light vehicle should be modest and not require much in the way of complexity.

We did this already, do we have to do it again ?

Originally Posted by jkv357

For a vehicle like the Elio, too much power and acceleration could make it too challenging for the average driver to handle.

No reason to get carried away looking for performance at this point.

Agreed but...worldwide car makers make small cars. They make small car engines. They tune them for a compromise between power, flexibility and economy. Which means you have a worldwide wharehouse of such engines to choose from all with up to the minute technology and design.

In that case why in the name of Jeebus on a skateboard would you choose to spend a seven figure amount of your investors' money on making an engine with all the technology that existed in 1989 ?

What is this, the original Gameboy of cars ? It's 2014 not 1989.

[adam728]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

Agreed but...worldwide car makers make small cars. They make small car engines. They tune them for a compromise between power, flexibility and economy. Which means you have a worldwide wharehouse of such engines to choose from all with up to the minute technology and design.

In that case why in the name of Jeebus on a skateboard would you choose to spend a seven figure amount of your investors' money on making an engine with all the technology that existed in 1989 ?

What is this, the original Gameboy of cars ? It's 2014 not 1989.

While the engines may be out there, do you think a car company is going to be willing to sell them to a potential competitor? Typically when deals like that are made between car makers its because one wants access to technology or patents that the other holds. What does Elio have to offer these other automakers? What benifit is the survival of Elio to other car companies or engine makers? Also, there may be quite a few 3rd party engine makers, but they are often working with customer patented designs, customer tooling, etc. So just because Brilliant makes engines for Mitsubishi it doesn't mean they can also sell it to Yamaha.


All that said, this trike seems like an obvious choice for a UTV engine. Side by sides are a huge market right now, and everyone and their brother is building them and building drivetrains for them. Seems finding a 40-50 hp engine that would propel this thing along would be decently easy. I suppose the larger issue would be if laws change and emissions step up it would be much harder clean up a lawn and garden or 4 wheeler based engine.

[Arragonis]

Yes any maker will sell to Elio because they are not a competitor and Elio should design their 'car' to use a variety of engines to suit. A suitable engine has existed more or less for the last 35 years, maybe not the same one but suitable ones anyway.

Morgan have done this for 70 years, it works as a strategy - choose a suitable engine from whatever the world has to offer. They even ran at LeMans and competed directly with Porsche using this idea.

If Elio sell enough in terms of numbers then the major makers will compete directly and Elio will be crushed, maybe bought and then crushed, but crushed all the same. E.g. Hummer ?

Please see 'In Search of Stupidity' (book) in particular the chapter on the all crushing gorilla, it applies here.

Edit: Anyone supplying engines would probably want COD.

[NeilBlanchard]

I stand corrected on the crankshaft, It didn't look like there was room for the big end journals below the engine case.

So, 2 valves per cylinder. I am surprised the water jacket is not between the cylinders - the center cylinder will have significantly more heat in the portions adjacent to the outside cylinders.

What is the circular depression in the left center of the larger depression in the top of the pistons?

Intake valves are closer to the cam chain and the "squish" area is in the center of the piston. It seem there is plenty of space for flame spread, but also a fairly large volume of tight clearance around the edge of the piston, especially on the exhaust side of the engine.

Exhaust valves are toward the transmission end of the block. I wonder if the have designed a heat transfer between the exhaust and intake tracts in the head?

I could be wrong, but it looks like there is injection into the intake, just inside the head. Where are the spark plugs?

[niky]

Manufacturers buy from each other all the time.

Hell... Elio could just go over the Daimler AG and buy the exact same engine that's in the Mirage, and voila... your Elio now has potentially thousands... errh... hundreds?.... uhh... dozens? of Mitsubishi dealers Stateside able to run diagnostics and troubleshooting on your motor.

[adam728]

I guess what I typically see is manufactures buying from each other when they have tech to contract in with the engine sale (patents, IP, etc), or share development on a platform (Scion/Subaru FRS/BRZ, Toyota/Mazda Yaris/Mazda2), or they are selling to boutique brands at a high price. While Elio is boutique, what do you think the budget for the engine and EFI/DFI system is on a vehicle with a $6800 selling price?

[user removed]

Originally Posted by adam728

I guess what I typically see is manufactures buying from each other when they have tech to contract in with the engine sale (patents, IP, etc), or share development on a platform (Scion/Subaru FRS/BRZ, Toyota/Mazda Yaris/Mazda2), or they are selling to boutique brands at a high price. While Elio is boutique, what do you think the budget for the engine and EFI/DFI system is on a vehicle with a $6800 selling price?

Consider the fact that they predicted deliveries to customers by the end of 2014, and they claimed the MPG figures with no more than "calculations".

Now with less than two months left in 2014 I wonder what the current delivery prediction is now, while we get a peek at the engine.

They are bleeding money monthly, probably other peoples money. I think it took 120 days to design and build the P51 Mustang. This thread is rapidly approaching two years age.

Color me very skeptical.

regards
mech

[redneck]

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They are bleeding money monthly, probably other peoples money. I think it took 120 days to design and build the P51 Mustang. This thread is rapidly approaching two years age.

True, however the bureaucracy didn't exist then as it does today.


>

[user removed]

Their beaurocracy (Elio), as in many of the prior failures has existed for how long?

I could not agree with you more redneck. The question now is how long will they bleed capital, benefitting who, while we see press releases and a few prototypes, apparently without the engine that will be used in the final production version, if that even exists. the capability to make hundreds of thousands in a year.

As the son of a bean counter, I see the pile of beans dwindling while they look for govt funding.

regards
mech