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Old 05-04-2009, 02:11 PM   #11 (permalink)
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boost is boost- gas/diesel doesn't matter

EGT and boost are such useful information, that I would get them regardless of your plans to fiddle with the motor settings. But the EGT gauge is expensive and may not be as important to you.

Look on autometer.com or egauges.com for combination gauges. I have no affiliation, but have been pleased with their information in the past.

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Old 05-04-2009, 11:26 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Been watching this. Most EGT's uses a stainless sheathed Thermocouple. There is virtually no likelyhood that the sensor will break. At the temperatures that would damage it, your engine is already toast. No Worries. I've run them in extremely high performance applications with no failures.

As far as running at low boost, this is something you will want to talk to your auto tech about. We don't have engines like your particular one over here in the states, so I haven't seen how your induction system works. I understand that it uses an EGR system to rebreath exhaust gasses to increase efficiencies. This only occurs at cruise speeds. The addition of inerts from the exhaust stream reduces the amount of fresh air and fuel required. It also reduces CHT's (Cylinder Head Temperatures.)

Most diesels only control fuel to the intake system. There are no throttle plates controlling air intake. (In most cases.)
By running forced induction, the apparent displacement of the engine is increased. This increases power, or in our case, allows us to operate more efficiently doing work.
Your waste gate is used to increase low speed engine performance. A non-waste gated turbo only produces boost when high loads are present above a specific engine operating range. They are necessarily sized so that they don't over-spin. As you increase load, your waste gate bypasses to maintain a maximum boost value. Basically it just dumps excess air charge.
At low RPM load, the trim and turbo sizing is setup to provide more available charge to accelerate the mass of your car. Work.
The boost will build as the engine speeds up, to either a pre-programmed maximum, or a mechanically imposed limit. I expect your engine has a computer controlling that maximum boost.

Be careful with modifications to the fuel system. Too much fuel to the system based on the amount of air being taken in can drive EGT's too high. Your pistons will start melting if it gets too hot in there. I don't know how your head and exhaust system are set up. Some engines use aluminum heads with steel or alloy liners in the exhaust ports to keep the ports from flowing. Those sleeves deteriorate over time in high temperatures.
Messing with the fuel injection requires keeping close track of temperatures. Without an EGT, playing with the injector pump delivery can result in catastrophic engine failure. Your engine may already track EGT with it's computer. I just don't know.
Simply arbitrarily reducing the boost limit will result in excess fuel in the available air charge at high throttle settings, and your EGT's can go too high. Fuel delivery must be reduced to match the available boost. Excess air doesn't hurt you. It's too much fuel that will do that trick, as a previous post explained.

Based on all that, just use driving technique to improve things. You have a tremendously efficient engine. Keep it in great shape, and drive with care. It will deliver exceptional economy. I wouldn't mess with it myself, and I've worked on a lot of OTR and Commercial Diesels. There's just too much going on there. Consult your mechanic about reducing the fuel delivery or better yet, just keep a light foot.

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Old 05-05-2009, 07:30 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Wow awesome post! I've learnt a lot - thanks! I'm not looking to touch the engine really, I'm happy with it. I'm just wondering whether an EGT gauge is worth it if I'm not touching the engine. sandcruiser seems to think so. I might not get it as it's quite involved to get the exhaust manifold off as the turbo and the manifold has to come off together, and the gauge costs a fair bit. I can do it, but I don't think it's worth the Effort.

Thanks again for your post!
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Old 05-05-2009, 08:14 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Absolutely! Get both the EGT and Boost gauge.

Happy Motoring!

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Old 05-05-2009, 02:02 PM   #15 (permalink)
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if you aren't going to adjust any settings at all on the motor, the EGT gauge would really only serve to tell you if something is very wrong, and might not be worthwhile.

The only other advantage to the knowing your EGTs is knowing how long to idle down after driving to give your turbo a chance to cool. If you push the motor hard, then shut it right off, you can get coking of oil on the turbo bearings- which will shorten the life of the turbo. Knowing the EGTs will let you shut down the instant it cools to a reasonable level. "Reasonable" is open to some debate- I figure anything below 400*F is fine. Some folks insist that 200 or 300 is the magic number. Idling to cool the turbo wastes fuel, but extends the life of your turbo, your head, the valves, and even the motor oil. A faulty turbo will waste far more fuel than the amount your motor consumes at idle for 30 seconds every now and then.

A boost gauge should be cheap(ish) and will give you an idea as to how hard the motor is working... ie: how much load it is experiencing. With practice, knowing the boost level should help you gain mileage, I think.

I like gauges, so I find it easy to justify installing as many as I can. But if you aren't likely to make changes in the fuel delivery system, EGTs aren't the most pressing thing to monitor.
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Old 05-06-2009, 06:59 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I would think that it would be fairly easy to just create an oil pump run-on circuit with a timer for such an issue. If your oil pump is electric, or can be converted to electric, you could just make a system that let the oil circulate in the sump, through the turbo, and not even be idling. That would prevent coking and cost no fuel, best of both worlds. It would run off battery power after you shut down the engine. Just throwing ideas out there, I know some of them might not be cost effective.

EDIT: I just Googled this and came up with a website that does this specifically. They use this application for race engines to prevent coking. The Prices aren't that bad in my opinion, though it might cost about $300 or so for a setup that fits you. Check it out: RBRacing
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:16 PM   #17 (permalink)
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interesting link
I've found that idling for as little as 30 seconds usually gets me down to reasonable temps.
I'd guess that $300 of fuel is an awful lot of 30 second idle shutdowns

and...
it isn't just oil that's involved here. Running the motor allows the head itself to get cooled, and the exhaust manifold.

To some extent I suspect that you've got to balance out the fuel wastage with the the long-term engine care.
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:12 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandcruiser View Post
I'd guess that $300 of fuel is an awful lot of 30 second idle shutdowns
Not as many as you would think, however I am talking about the saved time, as well as the saved fuel. If you add up all the 30-90 second wait periods you would have to endure over the course of owning the car, hours of time would be spent waiting. One has to calculate worth per hour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandcruiser View Post
it isn't just oil that's involved here. Running the motor allows the head itself to get cooled, and the exhaust manifold.

To some extent I suspect that you've got to balance out the fuel wastage with the the long-term engine care.
Unless you're running this car on the track, engine temps are not going to get that high to cause the head or manifold to warp, if they do then there are more serious problems than the turbo coking up.
Besides, through thermal convection, there still still be some flow preventing hot spots. If you're worried about the cooling of the other engine components that much, just get an inline pump that turns on when the turbo timer kicks on. Then you have the best of all worlds, no fuel spent idling, turbo cools off for no coking, and the engine has coolant circulating to prevent heat damage.
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Old 05-09-2009, 12:14 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Funny:

your points seem valid. I still have a hard time believing that it won't cause damage if I arrive at home with 600 or 700 degree EGTs, and just shut down.

But I can't pinpoint what the damage would be.

Thanks for your input!
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Old 05-09-2009, 01:55 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Few things to keep in mind.
1) Get a Boost gauge; not a boost + vac gauge (diesels don't typically have Vac.
2) EGT is nice Have one on my Gasoline car; need one on my Diesel.
3) Coolest Turbo Diesel Gauges McNallyelectronics.com : Home (Expensive though)
4) MPGino is super cool and *should* be able to be adapted fairly easily.

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