"Fully Charged" - Robert Llewellyn's excellent video podcast on EV's - Page 3 - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum

Patrick · 07-08-2010, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Are you going to ignore my numbers, after asking for them?

No, but they're incorrect. You haven't saved any money until you have covered the purchase price of the vehicle, which you didn't include.

dcb · 07-08-2010, 11:16 PM

c'mon, the rav4 is a barn compared to a prius.

Patrick · 07-08-2010, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

The RAV4 EV is the best apple-to-apples comparison we have right now.

Really? How about the iMiEV vs. Aygos comparison that Mr. Boxwell used in the video you posted? And don't forget to include the purchase prices of the vehicles.

Patrick · 07-08-2010, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcb

c'mon, the rav4 is a barn compared to a prius.

Hey, I didn't pick the RAV4, Neil did.

dcb · 07-08-2010, 11:26 PM

We should only limit ourselves to using the dolphin for a measure of EV miles/ cost effectiveness

Patrick · 07-08-2010, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcb

We should only limit ourselves to using the dolphin for a measure of EV miles/ cost effectiveness

Where can I buy one? Oh, wait, I can't.

dcb · 07-08-2010, 11:50 PM

You absolutely can roll up your sleeves and buy everything.

Patrick · 07-08-2010, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcb

You absolutely can roll up your sleeves and buy everything.

Yes, but one in, what, 1,000,000 people may be willing to build their own car? Definitely not mainstream.

And the dolphin doesn't meet crash test requirements or have what most people would consider necessary conveniences.

NeilBlanchard · 07-09-2010, 12:33 AM

The cost of EV's will come down when they're in mass production. And what does the cost of purchase have to do with the efficiency of the vehicle?

I doubt very much that the carbon footprint for the Prius's gasoline included the well-to-wheels. Need I mention again, that a car that burns fuel refined from petroleum is consuming as much electricity as the EV is PLUS the gasoline/diesel. 3-5 days "cooking" the oil into fuel takes a lot of additional energy; including electricity (with it's own embedded carbon) and natural gas (which includes it's drilling, transportation, etc.).

Can you tell me how much energy is embedded in gasoline? Because, if you want to be fair, then you have to take this into account.

Edit:

Toyota RAV4 EV: 887 BTU/mile
Toyota Prius: 2250 BTU/mile
Toyota RAV4 Gas: 4423 BTU/mile

(From: http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfuel/byfueltypeNF.shtml)

How can 887BTU/mile emit the same carbon as 2250BTU/mile? It is 2.5X higher for the Prius -- is exploring for oil, drilling, transporting, storing, transporting, refining, storing, transporting, storing, and then pumping it into your Prius really that much more efficient than the electric grid? If so, then prove it.