Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-08-2010, 10:15 PM   #21 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Florida, USA
Posts: 510

Hot Tamale - '10 Toyota Prius III
Thanks: 27
Thanked 96 Times in 70 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
Are you going to ignore my numbers, after asking for them?
No, but they're incorrect. You haven't saved any money until you have covered the purchase price of the vehicle, which you didn't include.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 07-08-2010, 10:16 PM   #22 (permalink)
dcb
needs more cowbell
 
dcb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 5,038

pimp mobile - '81 suzuki gs 250 t
90 day: 96.29 mpg (US)

schnitzel - '01 Volkswagen Golf TDI
90 day: 53.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 158
Thanked 267 Times in 210 Posts
c'mon, the rav4 is a barn compared to a prius.
__________________
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 10:23 PM   #23 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Florida, USA
Posts: 510

Hot Tamale - '10 Toyota Prius III
Thanks: 27
Thanked 96 Times in 70 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
The RAV4 EV is the best apple-to-apples comparison we have right now.
Really? How about the iMiEV vs. Aygos comparison that Mr. Boxwell used in the video you posted? And don't forget to include the purchase prices of the vehicles.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 10:25 PM   #24 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Florida, USA
Posts: 510

Hot Tamale - '10 Toyota Prius III
Thanks: 27
Thanked 96 Times in 70 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcb View Post
c'mon, the rav4 is a barn compared to a prius.
Hey, I didn't pick the RAV4, Neil did.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 10:26 PM   #25 (permalink)
dcb
needs more cowbell
 
dcb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 5,038

pimp mobile - '81 suzuki gs 250 t
90 day: 96.29 mpg (US)

schnitzel - '01 Volkswagen Golf TDI
90 day: 53.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 158
Thanked 267 Times in 210 Posts
We should only limit ourselves to using the dolphin for a measure of EV miles/ cost effectiveness
__________________
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 10:33 PM   #26 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Florida, USA
Posts: 510

Hot Tamale - '10 Toyota Prius III
Thanks: 27
Thanked 96 Times in 70 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcb View Post
We should only limit ourselves to using the dolphin for a measure of EV miles/ cost effectiveness
Where can I buy one? Oh, wait, I can't.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 10:50 PM   #27 (permalink)
dcb
needs more cowbell
 
dcb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 5,038

pimp mobile - '81 suzuki gs 250 t
90 day: 96.29 mpg (US)

schnitzel - '01 Volkswagen Golf TDI
90 day: 53.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 158
Thanked 267 Times in 210 Posts
You absolutely can roll up your sleeves and buy everything.
__________________
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 10:53 PM   #28 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Florida, USA
Posts: 510

Hot Tamale - '10 Toyota Prius III
Thanks: 27
Thanked 96 Times in 70 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcb View Post
You absolutely can roll up your sleeves and buy everything.
Yes, but one in, what, 1,000,000 people may be willing to build their own car? Definitely not mainstream. And the dolphin doesn't meet crash test requirements or have what most people would consider necessary conveniences.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 11:33 PM   #29 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,873

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,386
Thanked 2,883 Times in 1,812 Posts
The cost of EV's will come down when they're in mass production. And what does the cost of purchase have to do with the efficiency of the vehicle?

I doubt very much that the carbon footprint for the Prius's gasoline included the well-to-wheels. Need I mention again, that a car that burns fuel refined from petroleum is consuming as much electricity as the EV is PLUS the gasoline/diesel. 3-5 days "cooking" the oil into fuel takes a lot of additional energy; including electricity (with it's own embedded carbon) and natural gas (which includes it's drilling, transportation, etc.).

Can you tell me how much energy is embedded in gasoline? Because, if you want to be fair, then you have to take this into account.

Edit:

Toyota RAV4 EV: 887 BTU/mile
Toyota Prius: 2250 BTU/mile
Toyota RAV4 Gas: 4423 BTU/mile

(From: http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfuel/byfueltypeNF.shtml)

How can 887BTU/mile emit the same carbon as 2250BTU/mile? It is 2.5X higher for the Prius -- is exploring for oil, drilling, transporting, storing, transporting, refining, storing, transporting, storing, and then pumping it into your Prius really that much more efficient than the electric grid? If so, then prove it.
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/

Last edited by NeilBlanchard; 07-08-2010 at 11:48 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 11:55 PM   #30 (permalink)
Left Lane Ecodriver
 
RobertSmalls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 2,258

Prius C - '12 Toyota Prius C
Thanks: 79
Thanked 284 Times in 197 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
Can you tell me how much energy is embedded in gasoline?
17%. Mr. Boxwell agrees, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
How can 887BTU/mile emit the same carbon as 2250BTU/mile?
It's that 34% efficient upstream generation thing again.

Neil, arguing with you is a lot of work, and a lot of math. You're wrong; I'm done.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
EcoModder iPhone/iPod Touch Theme! SVOboy Forum News & Feedback 1 08-12-2008 10:58 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com