GM has given up on aero fender skirts

[Frank Lee]

But they haven't been falling off Insights.

Ummmm... Rear Fender Skirt - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum

Pick one :

What Welburne said was accurate.

Those Honda guys had it all wrong then.

They did it more to make a statement than anything. Why doesn't the new Insight have skirts?

If you wonder why GM USA doesn't have efficient vehicles, you can now pin a name on it : Welburn.

Yah I'm sure it was his decision and his alone.

We'll burn more gas

There are bigger fish to fry.

Loremo (no skirts) at .20 Cd is better than Insight with (.25 or .26).

I think you're right. That's why new ideas don't come around; someone doesn't like them.

Skirts are anything but new. If someone doesn't like them it's because the pros/cons didn't come out in the skirts' favor. There is a base of experience.

I'll say right now most stylists aren't into wheel skirts, but I can't speak for the focus groups.

Focus groups can't find their *** with both hands.

Yeah, and stick with building what they've been building for ages.
Then wonder why they'll need to be bailed out. Again.

They are consistently at or near the top in sales. Here's but one link: CleanMPG Forums - GM August Sales Up 18% Profitability is another matter.

What happened to innovation in the US ?

Lawyers and politicians with too many restrictions; mgmt execs with no vision and failure to take the appropriate risks. The guys down in the trenches DO have innovative ideas...

We'll have those 60+ mpg cars in Europe.

We can blame the lawyers, politicians, and execs for that, AND the consumers too, who have proven extremely fickle and haven't provided the mfgs with a consistent market demand for economy.

Re: skirts off:

Normal driving and operating conditions no longer apply when racing.

Make it a user friendly design, and it won't be an issue.

Skirts- as we know them- very much impede checking and airing tires. That can be overcome... but it hasn't.

Another good reason to abandon GM altogether.

You have some pretty weird priorities.

Nobody caught my rationale re: narrowed rear tracks eh? Ignore it at your peril... It's true and it's on the mark.

Then why the h*ll are so many people taking pictures of my car?

Anything out of the norm brings the cameras out.

All that said:

I personally am not scared of skirts for the reasons listed in my earlier post, but having ENGINEERED for an OEM before, I'm well aware of having to design for THE LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR.

[Frank Lee]

Tell ya what guys: Go ahead and give all your allegiance and support to the car companies that sell cars with skirts. Do it.

[Frank Lee]

I haven't mathed it out but I'd wager one skirt incident i.e. falling off would cost enough to repair to more than negate any fuel savings over it's entire lifespan.

[Vekke]

Fuel saving "lifespan" is no issue anywhere else when it comes to fuel saving. OEMs install DRL led lights to their headlamps. When one of those leds gets failure you have to change whole headlamp which is pretty expensive...

Anyway that was their current opinion. That will change when the time is right. Who has the balls to start making a serial production car with proper fender skirts will propably have a little egde.

Like people said if you want them there are aftermarkets that can and will handle the need. I will desing and build fenderskirts to any car if they are willing to buy them at proper price. Price will be 15 times more expensive than what oems would have to pay from them.

I think my lupo has now some pretty sweet looking fender skirts at the moment. I have a idea how to make the installation very simple, but again if you cannot find a investor who is willing to put their money on the table. Ideas will stay inside my head.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

They did it more to make a statement than anything. Why doesn't the new Insight have skirts?

Dunno.
It's also a lot less efficient.
So is the CR-Z.

Dunno over there, but neither are selling well in Belgium.
The only CR-Z I've seen driving around so far was a test car at the dealer's.
I've seen more Bentleys than that

New insights are few and far between.

Loremo (no skirts) at .20 Cd is better than Insight with (.25 or .26).

Is that for the original or the revised design ?
No production values though, as there's no production car.
If ever, as it's been eerily quiet around Loremo.
(I've been on their waiting list from 2005. The mail server still worked last July, sending out birthday wishes to its subscribers.)

It'd have been even better with skirts.

They are consistently at or near the top in sales.

And a large contributor to the very mediocre average MPG on new cars in the US.

Skirts- as we know them- very much impede checking and airing tires.

Innovations like the Michelin Tweel will make that unnecessary.
Won't be for tomorrow though, but it's coming.

Nobody caught my rationale re: narrowed rear tracks eh? Ignore it at your peril... It's true and it's on the mark.

There's plenty of cars with a slightly narrower rear track.
Not as much as would be needed for skirts though.

I'm well aware of having to design for THE LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR.

If everybody kept designing for that, we'd still be driving Flintstone-mobiles.

[Frank Lee]

If everybody kept designing for that, we'd still be driving Flintstone-mobiles.

Not so. With EFI, a/ts, traction control, stability control, ABS, airbags, etc., and etc., one practically needs no skill at all to drive.

The mechanix mags have featured airless tires that were "right around the corner" for 80 years now. I won't be holding my breath for that one.

The large contributer to lousy fe isn't GM, it's the fact that the customers are choosing GM full size pickups and SUVS instead of compacts.

There is no production Loremo but there is a physical one that presumably has been tunnel tested.