SUV rollover deaths continue unabated but Toyota's pedals get all the bad press.

[orange4boy]

Go google SUV rollover in the news section and you find people dying every day in SUV rollovers. You know, the vehicle some people like to put forth as the safest vehicle to be in in an accident. These reports are not front page news, however.

Where is the huge recall of SUV's to fix the rollover epidemic and stem the flow of bodybags from the thousands of people who die needlessly every year.

Meanwhile, because of one crash, the Toyota gets all the headlines because people can't install their floormats properly or take responsibility for letting them get mashed against the pedals, or figure out how to shift their car into neutral.

The pathetic excuse we have for journalism here keeps parroting the falsehood that it's a flaw in the pedal and it gets stuck when it's aftermarket floormats that are the culprit. The idea that it's the electronic control has been debunked several times.

[QUOTE]Toyota said in a separate news release that during the past six years the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has undertaken an "exhaustive review of allegations of unintended acceleration on Toyota and Lexus vehicles and six times the agency closed the investigation without finding any electronic engine control system malfunction to be the cause of unintended acceleration."[quote]

I had one of these "events" with my Volvo 240 while I was trying to back up. My foot was on the gas and not the brake. Luckily I figured it out just in time and hit the brake but it was my own fault for not being careful enough.

Here's an idea, there should be some kind of tactile feedback so you can sense instantly if your foot is on the gas or the brake. Problem 1/2 solved.

Added. I don't know the numbers on Toyota SUV rollovers but would welcome more attention to it if it's a real problem.

[alohaspirit]

i drive one of the highest rollover risks (geo tracker)

a lot of it IS media

seen here in the truth about its cousin, the suzuki samurai:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6_1o_FxsNs

why should it be any different with hybrids?

(it shouldnt but it is)

[hamsterpower]

Forgive me if I misunderstood you but, I don't believe the Prius had anything to do with the famous accident you speak of. That was a Lexus model. It is a shame that Toyota is getting so much press on recalls lately. At least they are taking this head on and fixing things before people get hurt.
As for SUV rollovers, I see this first hand all the time. I work for a traffic reporting company and I see rolled over SUVs almost every day sometimes a few a day, just in my market. Luckily most are not fatal or even serious injuries. I rarely see small cars roll over.
I really wish driver training was far more thorough. It seems most people had no idea how close to the edge the capabilities of there cars were being pushed.

[orange4boy]

Thanks,

I changed Prius to Toyota pedals as it's about a variety of models and Toyota SUV rollovers may be an issue as well.

There is a false sense of security in SUV's. They seem to be the first ones in the ditch in snow and icy conditions.

Now this is funny. Jackass gets his just rewards and his buddy gets a good laugh. They are pretty hard to tip though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkJRY...layer_embedded

[squatch81]

I have been driving SUV's and 4WD trucks for over 30 years, and haven't rolled one yet. However I have witnessed several rollovers over the years and all but one were caused by operator error. The odd one out was caused by a tire blowout, any may have been low air pressure (improper maintenance). SUV rollovers are usually caused by people trying to drive their trucks like they are sports cars, like in the above video. The bottom line is to know your vehicles limitations, and do not exceed them.
I believe Toyota's pedal problems have been greatly exaggerated by the media, but that doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. Unfortunately Toyota is trying to cover it up with smoke and mirrors.
Last fall when I read about Toyota blaming it on floor mats, I laughed out loud. Their current explanation (sticky linkage) doesn't hold water either, as far as I am concerned. I have an '02 Prius (not covered by the recall), and have experienced a malfunction such as is described on one occasion. I do not have aftermarket floor mats, and the factory mats were secured properly. I had just pulled out of my driveway and only traveled a few hundred feet when it suddenly took off like I had floored it. It actually felt like it was accelerating faster than it would have if I had floored it. The pedal came up when I took my foot off of it, but the car kept accelerating. I tried the brakes (no help), then slammed the accelerator to the floor a couple times, like I was taught in drivers ed so many years ago, and control returned to normal.
I do not blame Toyota because the car malfunctioned - equipment malfunctions happen all the time. Repairing malfunctioning equipment has kept a roof over my head and food in my gut all my adult life. My Toyota has been the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned, and if I could afford it I would buy another even if Toyota did nothing about this problem.
IMHO, if people could keep a clear head and be prepared for the unexpected, Toyota's current problems and SUV rollovers would both be non-issues. I think most crashes are caused by a loose nut between the seat and the steering wheel. I know every wreck I have been involved with has.

[/rant]

[shovel]

umm...

maybe it's because the Toyota recalls are brought about by a faulty vehicle design, while the SUV rollovers are brought about by faulty drivers failing to drive within the limits of a vehicle class's inherent design?

the SUV's most frequently bashed for their propensity to respond unfavorably to idiot drivers also happen to be the ones that have extremely favorable characteristics to be used where 4wd is most useful: tall ground clearance to clear extremely rough roads, flexible suspension to maintain tire contact on those extremely rough roads, narrow exterior dimensions to fit between trees and rock overhangs, tall cabins necessitated by their ladder frame construction (which is what helps to make them durable), tall tire sidewalls to allow the tires to conform to loose surfaces, etc.

Would you drive a sports car on

this road

? (yes, that is an actual, legal road - the driver is not driving "off road", which is illegal in Utah) ... the answer is No, right? So don't drive a Samurai like it's a sports car and then you won't roll over!

I have a special pair of shoes for the beanbag of anyone who blames Suzuki for a single Samurai rollover. It's the driver, NOT the equipment. Same goes for Troopers, Explorers, FJ40's, Monteros, Sidekicks, etc etc etc

In contrast when a vehicle fails to operate in accordance with its own norm, such as the subject of the Toyota recalls, that is an equipment defect.

[alohaspirit]

that is pretty funny

good news is that you and buddy can just flip it back over



but on-topic:

the weather is probably a contributing factor to all these brake/mat problems

people get in with snow and junk on their feet
and just want to get where theyre going as fast as possible

[cfg83]

squatch81 -

For SUVs, do you think there should be a special class of license? Should drivers be required to have more training?

Thank you for this comment :

I tried the brakes (no help), then slammed the accelerator to the floor a couple times, like I was taught in drivers ed so many years ago, and control returned to normal.

What was the logic behind slamming the accelerator? Was the idea to loosen a stuck throttle cable by giving it slack? On one hand, a drive-by-wire car wouldn't have a "throttle cable" to unstick. On the other hand, different driver input could trigger different logic in the ECU/PCM, so the end-result could be the same.

I don't remember this advice in Driver's Ed (back in 1983!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), so I will add it to my list.

CarloSW2

[bgd73]

1. The throttle problem is beyond floor mats.

The sUV in my own location will stay popular, not for high speed. although the longer it is the better, like an extended suburban. A relative has been trading those in for years on simply a newer one.

I see them flop over all the time, they are like toys. A "n00b" who defends them as performers may meet the truth involuntarily. Education for thier purpose, get rid of myths, and the suv is a worker. My own opinion of dislike is the chevy blazer sized suv...ridiculous. Too big for a four cylinder, and too stupid to be big. I took a photo comparing to a subaru wagon. The wagon not only had the same length, it has more room interior due to smaller dash and skinnier doors, low CG, and I bet 10to 1 the 4.3 liter would break a crank trying to do as much work as the 1781cc subaru. I would wager it for real.



I could play the chevy hillbilly games, after telling you how much I built and lost, you may want to sit back down tough guys.

There are real places really difficult that need real machines. You like suv? go get the biggest ever in four doors and full size.

[bwilson4web]

I try to avoid comparing my ride with another ... unless someone else comes with a 'chip on their shoulder.' No matter what we say or do about SUVs, it won't have any effect on either our 2003 or 2010 Prius. So I tend to focus on things I can do something about.

Living in the South, I'm well aware of how many of my co-workers use SUVs, pickups, and 4-wheel drive vehicles that will never see a spec of mud. But they made their bed and need to live with the consequences. After all, they put their own lives at risk and pay at the pump.

I've been rebuilding NHW11 accelerators for a couple of years and studied the NHW20 accelerator. I've tested every form of 'How to deal with a runaway' and am well practiced. I'm quite happy to share my 'lessons learned' about Prius but really could not post anything about an SUV except to "copy and paste" what is already common knowledge. ... One exception, pedestrian accidents.

In looking at Prius-pedestrian accidents, I have to wade through a lot of pickup and SUV accident reports. A bloody business, literally, I'm seeing in the accident statistics some ugly trends. But it only matters if pedestrian safety is important ... then the type of vehicle becomes important to see if there are vehicles that need special attention.

Bob Wilson