Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-07-2014, 09:27 AM   #11 (permalink)
Rat Racer
 
Fat Charlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Route 16
Posts: 4,109

Al the Third, year four - '13 Honda Fit Base
Team Honda
90 day: 42.9 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,742
Thanked 1,888 Times in 1,224 Posts
The problem is determining exactly where one ends and the other begins...


__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepdog44 View Post
Transmission type Efficiency
Manual neutral engine off.100% @MPG <----- Fun Fact.
Manual 1:1 gear ratio .......98%
CVT belt ............................88%
Automatic .........................86%

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 04-07-2014, 09:55 AM   #12 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Philippines
Posts: 2,173
Thanks: 1,739
Thanked 587 Times in 401 Posts
True enough. They could go with multiple numbers, passengers, cargo and combined.

It just makes little sense calling a small car with a gigantic boot midsized. It's not like people are going to be riding in the trunk.



Most people, anyway.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 12:42 AM   #13 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Irvine
Posts: 54
Thanks: 2
Thanked 11 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacemanspif View Post
The RAM 2500 was the bottom vehicle with a score of 18 with a 5.7L V8. Is there anywhere to see the whole list??
The Ram 2500 is available in a cleaner version (22) that beats the Veyron and M-B luxury sedan. If you want the whole list, you can buy the complete Greenercars book. It grants you access to the last ~20 years of lists, calculations, analysis, etc.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 05:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
IamIan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: RI
Posts: 677
Thanks: 368
Thanked 220 Times in 136 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by theaveng View Post
Every year (since the mid-1990s) greenercars.org publishes the cleanest cars based on a factory-to-junkyard analysis. I went through the list and picked-out some of the more-interesting cars. The ones that surprised me I put in bold:

100 maximum score
59 SmartForTwo EV
58 Spark EV
57 Prius City

55 Leaf EV. Prius, Civic, and other compact hybrids.
54 Mirage, Fiesta (normal nonhybrids) (3 cylinders)(and cleanest manual shift cars)
54 Civic Natural Gas
One more honorable mention
The same CREEE Green cradle to grave score.

Gen1 Insight
Last score in 2006 (when they stopped making them) was:
MT 54
CVT 57
__________________
Life Long Energy Efficiency Enthusiast
2000 Honda Insight - LiFePO4 PHEV - Solar
2020 Inmotion V11 PEV ~30miles/kwh
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2014, 01:34 PM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 808 Times in 592 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamIan View Post
Gen1 Insight
Last score in 2006 (when they stopped making them) was:
MT 54
CVT 57
That says there's something screwy about their analysis. Automatic transmission costs more to manufacture & maintain, gets worse mpg, and (going by accounts here & Insight Central) needs more maintenance, but still gets a higher score?

It's also (IMHO, anyway) pretty messed up to give a score to a new car, and not update that on the basis of experience.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2014, 07:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 2,158

Dark Egg - '12 VW Touareg TDI Sport AWD
90 day: 25.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 195
Thanked 907 Times in 623 Posts
I too would like to see their methodology and exactly where they are giving and taking away points. My bet is their first fail is to use EPA numbers, then they probably fail to penalize things they like that are harmful like added batteries and their replacement. Then add lots of points for how pure exhaust is even though the difference from high to low in modern cars isn't much. My pet peeve is the catalytic converter, it's time to rethink it's benefits to it's cost of production and use especially outside of big cities.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2014, 09:40 PM   #17 (permalink)
.
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: The Berkshires, Massachussetts
Posts: 885

Ruby Sparks - '01 Honda Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 64.27 mpg (US)
Thanks: 111
Thanked 362 Times in 202 Posts
The only thing to account for the Insights lower score is that it's made entirely of aluminum, which is more energy intensive to refine than steel. However recent articles have stated it is less energy intensive to use aluminum than steel over a fullsize vehicles lifetime because of the mpg gained in weight savings.

The CVT gets a better score because it has less NO2 emissions making it cleaner. The MT has less Co2 emissions though.

As it stands the Insight is more eco friendly than many electric cars on that list. If you used the actual mpg you get, it would be equal or darn near close to superior. Which is already saying a lot for a the poor "mild" hybrid drivetrain.
__________________
I try to be helpful. I'm not an expert.

Last edited by sheepdog 44; 08-10-2014 at 09:51 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2014, 02:07 AM   #18 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 8,648
Thanks: 0
Thanked 952 Times in 842 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
My pet peeve is the catalytic converter, it's time to rethink it's benefits to it's cost of production and use especially outside of big cities.
EFI, and even turbochargers, decrease both the amount of unburnt hydrocarbon emissions but also carbon monoxide that is more harmful than CO2. IIRC, the reason for cats to get widespread was exactly the carbon monoxide emissions...
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2014, 02:37 AM   #19 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 808 Times in 592 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepdog 44 View Post
The only thing to account for the Insights lower score is that it's made entirely of aluminum, which is more energy intensive to refine than steel. However recent articles have stated it is less energy intensive to use aluminum than steel over a fullsize vehicles lifetime because of the mpg gained in weight savings.
Also, if you happen to have the misfortune to live in places where the state dumps thousands of tons of corrosive chemicals on the roads, your aluminum body will not start looking like Swiss cheese after a few years, so the vehicle lifetime may well be much longer.

Quote:
The CVT gets a better score because it has less NO2 emissions making it cleaner. The MT has less Co2 emissions though.
As I thought, their weighting scale is messed up, giving undue weight to NOx, which eventually winds up as soil nitrates - IOW fertilizer.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2014, 02:43 AM   #20 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 8,648
Thanks: 0
Thanked 952 Times in 842 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
if you happen to have the misfortune to live in places where the state dumps thousands of tons of corrosive chemicals on the roads, your aluminum body will not start looking like Swiss cheese after a few years, so the vehicle lifetime may well be much longer
And also, less energy and raw materials are required to manufacture the supplies needed to repair the rusty spots.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com