Has the roi for solar batteries improved in the last few years?

[Xist]

When I watched the 2020 Arizona corporation commission debate a candidate kept shouting solar.

"It doesn't work at night!"
"Use batteries!"

I kept reading that solar panels last 30 years, but pay for themselves in 8.

However, batteries never broke even before they failed.

I watched the new debate with old arguments.

One side kept saying that solar energy is the cheapest energy and the other side kept saying "When you include solar it costs 5 times as much!"

I couldn't find any information for solar battery ROI, so I humbly come before you fine... individuals...

[redpoint5]

Batteries combined with solar have an ROI if there is no other alternative, like you're on Mars and need to go places and experiment, but the local utility doesn't service your neighborhood on Mars.

Solar is the cheapest electricity if you don't consider the fact that it isn't a complete solution and makes all the other sources more expensive. In other words, it's only cheapest if you make everyone else pay for it but are sneaky about how you pull that one off. It's like making purchases on someone else's credit card, but then bragging about how cheap it was.

You'll know when solar is cheaper when your utility invites you to pay less per kWh on your bill by opting in to "renewable" electricity. Until then, it's more expensive for those of us that live in reality.

[Xist]

Well, not just Mars. I don't understand wanting to live off-grid, despite every human seeming to aggravate me.

Humans are a necessary evil, at least until I figure out how to plant bacon bushes.

No, not trees. Too much work!

There are plenty of places where it would cost too much to run electricity, if it is even an option.

There are many places where it sounds prohibitively expensive.

"It costs how much to connect me?! Forget you! I'll just buy solar!" "It costs how much for solar batteries?! Forget you! I'll just get a connection!"

[sheepdog 44]

It's possible to get a return on investment from just batteries. Charging you batteries on cheaper off peak hours compared to using the more expensive peak hour rates.

[oil pan 4]

It looks like the peak low price for solar installs was 2020. Labor and supply shortages has increased costs a lot.
The supply problems will probably get better with rising interest rates making it less affordable for people. But labor costs will likely never go back down.
My solar panels will probably never pay for them selves and I knew that going into this.
Batteries never pay for them selves. Batteries are a money pit.

[aerohead]

Off the bat, whether or not one gets a tax break, rebate, or some other incentive to purchase could significantly affect the calculus used to compute ROI.
Presently, 'prices' do not necessarily reflect actual 'costs.'
And some messengers appear to know everything about 'price' while nothing about 'value.'

[redpoint5]

Of course, I was being hyperbolic to make my point.

I've got huge interest in going off-grid. Who doesn't want autonomy such that nobody can deprive you of essential services? Who doesn't want resilience from storms? If it could cost less that's even better.

Cost, that's the problem. In my particular location at exactly the 45th parallel, I get 1/5th the sunlight on average in the winter compared to summer. What that means is I would need to install 5x more solar than my needs demand in summer just to make it through winter. Except for a few weeks in winter, I'll be producing more electricity than needed and have to waste it.

Same problem with batteries. I'll need to oversize the system to get me through the weeks in winter where there's practically no sun.

Other locations might not be so bad, especially near the equator in places that don't get much rain during the day. Perhaps those locations would only need to overbuild by 2x to go off-grid.

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

It looks like the peak low price for solar installs was 2020. Labor and supply shortages has increased costs a lot.
The supply problems will probably get better with rising interest rates making it less affordable for people. But labor costs will likely never go back down.
My solar panels will probably never pay for them selves and I knew that going into this.
Batteries never pay for them selves. Batteries are a money pit.

Somehow I always luck out. My solar was installed May 2020, probably at the lowest price in history, and barely got in on 3 different subsidies, and received approval from the utility to net-meter before they capped my area.

Bought this house in 2019 when prices were less insane. Refi massively lowered my interest rate AND eliminated PMI since home value appreciated massively.

You probably will get an ROI on solar since utility rates are up 20% in 1 year across the nation. Once the politicians start pushing unreliables hard, utility rates will double.

The crazy thing is many people are ditching their natural gas appliances because of the price increase, which is temporary. NG will be cheaper than ever once supply is restored and demand is down due to everyone ditching it. It's like people can't help but time things exactly wrong.

[aerohead]

Is the home as energy efficient as it could be?
There was a 'Canada' home designed in the 1970s, after the Arab Oil Embargo.
For Toronto, Canada, with a family of four, and junk mail, the house could maintain indoor temperature without utilities, in a statistical 100-year Winter, relying solely on the metabolic heat of the four persons, augmented by combusting the normal 'junk mail' in a condensing furnace.

[freebeard]

Batteries combined with solar have an ROI if there is no other alternative, like you're on Mars and need to go places and experiment, but the local utility doesn't service your neighborhood on Mars.

It fails when applied as a Band-aid. A passive solar house is prerequisite, with the passive air conditioning coming on the scene currently.

Selfish solar right downtown would be my preference. I've got room for four 39x65" panels.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by aerohead

Is the home as energy efficient as it could be?

Of course the house isn't as efficient as it should be. It's a typical construction house, meaning the builders made it as cheaply as possible. Consumers don't have much motivation to invest in efficiency either as they are always focused on price per sq/ft, not long-term cost of ownership.

It's among the few areas I might be willing to say government regulation on minimum efficiency could be justified.

It looks like I haven't run the heat in this house since May. Temperatures are dropping, and this morning the house was 69 degrees. Forecast is a high of 79 today, so I'll be able to get the temp back up, and the house will retain the heat well enough overnight to not need the furnace. 10 day forecast shows a high in the 70s-80s every day, so I'll get at least midway through October with no furnace use. It's unusually sunny and warm.

First day of AC use was 6/22 this year, and last day was 9/11 for 980 kWh. About a hundred bucks to keep minimally comfortable in the summer (78 F).

November is the furthest I've made it without running heat before. Perhaps I'll make it this year.