How obtainable is 0.159Cd? (Why dont we have bubblecars yet?)

[stillsearching]

Originally titled "why dont we have bubblecars yet?"

I mean commercially... and for a reasonable price, not some greedy guy selling it for more than i'd ever save in gas to drive something ugly. With all the kitcars that are out there i'm surprised there arent "perfect aero" bodykits that don't compromise. The automakers are too dumb, they want something that they think 18 year old kids will find stylish and sexy, whereas what I want is a way to drop drag from 0.30 (where it seems to be fairly well pinned) to something like 0.159 like the 235mpg VW 1 Litre instead, whether i'm driving a subcompact, a midsize, a van, or much of anything else. The only thing that should change much is frontal area, with whatever size the vehicle has to be being appropriate whether its a 2 passenger, 6 passenger, or four row seating passenger van.

Or are the car shapes we have actually pretty good and all we need to do is add wheel covers, whaletail, tape some seams and block off the radiator to get pretty close to this figure?

[Sven7]

People think they look weird.

Have you seen/heard the backlash on even conservative cars like the Prius? Many people won't buy them regardless of FE because they're different.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by stillsearching

Originally titled "why dont we have bubblecars yet?"

Mostly for the very same reasons as the missing boattail.
The bubbles have lots of interior volume

The automakers are too dumb, they want something that they think 18 year old kids will find stylish and sexy, whereas what I want is a way to drop drag from 0.30 (where it seems to be fairly well pinned) to something like 0.159 like the 235mpg VW 1 Litre instead,

The VW 1L and XL show they aren't dumb
They can do it - they just doubt the market is ready to accept their solutions.

VW / Audi tried with the Lupo and A2 3 Liter (per 100km) cars, and effectively failed as they didn't sell that many.
That surely makes any company cautious.
However, these cars are more in demand now, than they ever were when new !

VW is trying again, with the up! CNG (79 g/km CO2, that's Prius C territory).
A brave try in what's very much a niche market in most countries.

Fiat has the lowest overall CO2 output in Europe, yet the company is in shambles .

Or are the car shapes we have actually pretty good

If they were, it wouldn't be so easy to ecomod them, would it ?

[drmiller100]

i'm trying to build a kit so you can get what you want.

ken fry is trying.

as far as i know, we are the only two working on it.

[NeilBlanchard]

The Edison2 VLC and the Aptera 2e are in the Cd 0.15-16 range. So it is possible.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by stillsearching

Originally titled "why dont we have bubblecars yet?"

I mean commercially... and for a reasonable price, not some greedy guy selling it for more than i'd ever save in gas to drive something ugly. With all the kitcars that are out there i'm surprised there arent "perfect aero" bodykits that don't compromise. The automakers are too dumb, they want something that they think 18 year old kids will find stylish and sexy, whereas what I want is a way to drop drag from 0.30 (where it seems to be fairly well pinned) to something like 0.159 like the 235mpg VW 1 Litre instead, whether i'm driving a subcompact, a midsize, a van, or much of anything else. The only thing that should change much is frontal area, with whatever size the vehicle has to be being appropriate whether its a 2 passenger, 6 passenger, or four row seating passenger van.

Or are the car shapes we have actually pretty good and all we need to do is add wheel covers, whaletail, tape some seams and block off the radiator to get pretty close to this figure?

It would take a book to properly answer your question.
The book would mention that people don't know what's important.Since they don't know what's important,they remain unaware with no perspicuity.Unaware,they demonstrate no interest in automotive technology.With no interest,there is no learning.So we remain ignorant,vain,insecure,and superstitious.
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If you want Cd 0.159 get a pickup truck or any body-on-frame vehicle and streamline it yourself.There isn't going to be any kits.Not with unibody construction dominating the automobile market.Business people serve markets,they don't create them.
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If you want to start a club,and all the club members want a Cd 0.159 'kit' for a particular chassis,then you could pool your resources and for a number of millions of dollars,you could get a fabricator to step into the void.This is exactly what Henry Ford did with the Model-T,using the Dodge brothers to manufacture the critical mechanicals which were assembled into the cars.
With a big enough club you could buy what's left of Saturn Corp. and re-manufacture the EV-1 as an internal combustion car.With a boat tail,the EV-1 has a Cd a bit lower than 0.159.
Talk to SAM's CLUB,they're big enough!

[Sven7]

Originally Posted by drmiller100

i'm trying to build a kit so you can get what you want.

ken fry is trying.

as far as i know, we are the only two working on it.

I've been sketching and 3D modeling.

But mine will probably be a one-off.

[stillsearching]

Well as a case in point, GM had the EV1 and then CLAIMED people didn't want it, when there were people ready to buy it straight up after the leases were up, crushing every one of them to keep them out of private hands. (see Who Killed The Electric Car?) I liked the look of the EV1 - i'd buy one right now even if I might stick a diesel in there. I don't buy there is no market interest. People loved their Saturns too (I was one of them) but they're dead as a car company. I love my SL and got mad at the Ion, which was really an Opel, which was less reliable, which got worse miles per gallon, completely forgetting the reason most people originally bought a Saturn in the first place. (practical, reliable, best mileage in class at 29/40, etc) I don't think there is "no market" I think they are killing markets and herding people like cattle into this new stylish piece of @&$! they want to ram down our throats which is made even lower quality than the previous generation of cars. I guess the Aveo is made in china now... I wonder if it will last longer than the wal mart can opener I got made in china. (bending on the 2nd can)

I don't mind the look of the super sleek cars, but i'll admit having a cardboard boattail hanging off the rear would make me feel a bit self conscious. Or a poorly made fiberglass shell of my own. That's part of my frustration - I don't think the 1 Liter or the EV1 look bad at all, the AeroCivic i'd have a harder time getting used to driving though.

[freebeard]

More like 'Why don't we have bubblecars any more?'





Behold the Volkhart-Sagitta. Cd of .17 in 1940. Splash a mold off that, heck snap some pix in the museum and then output it with a 3D printer. Drop it on the ubiquitous VW floorpan and put a TDI diesel in the tail.

Take a look at Local Motors

[aerohead]

In 1982,General Motors made a 'kit' for their Chevrolet Citation.
The standard Citation had Cd 0.45,Af 20.707 sq ft (est. @ 81%),and CdA 9.318 sq ft (0.864 sq meters).EPA 22 CITY/34 HWY.Popular Science drove the car at a constant 55 mph and saw 28.2 mpg.
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The Citation was modified into the AERO X,with Cd 0.25,Af 19.463 (est),and CdA 4.865 sq ft (0.451 sq meters).
Mileage for the AERO X was EPA 25 CITY/49 HWY.If the AERO X performed like the Citation,it's actual on road mpg @ 55 mph might have been 40.64 mpg.
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You could ponder what would have happened had they dropped an EV-1 body on,at Cd 0.187,or the streamlined EV-1 LSR boat-tailed version,with Cd 0.156.
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If VW Beetles were still body-on-frame as in the 1970s,we might see a company like Fiberfab rise like Lazarus.