Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Hybrids
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-20-2011, 05:30 PM   #11 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 877
Thanked 2,024 Times in 1,304 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnmarcus View Post
Except that for every hp second you put into the accumulator at 80% efficiency you can only put .64 hp to the ground because you are doubling your losses. Meaning the best FE may not be to run at best BSFC but to throttle back on ICE and run through a more efficient drive train. A 36% drop in efficiency is significant so the "island of better FE through engine throttle" would be large.
Peak efficiency for hydraulic pumps is 95% and for accumulator it is 99%.

regards
Mech

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 01-24-2011, 11:57 PM   #12 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,907

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,475
Thanked 2,950 Times in 1,844 Posts
A few updated details:

How Chrysler's Hydraulic Hybrid Works: Energy From Pressure - Green Car Reports

It looks like the rear is lower than a normal one -- how much would a high pressure 14.4 gallon accumulator weigh?

__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 07:42 AM   #13 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
redneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SC Lowcountry
Posts: 1,795

Geo XL1 - '94 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Boat tails and more mods
90 day: 72.22 mpg (US)

Big, Bad & Flat - '01 Dodge Ram 3500 SLT
Team Cummins
90 day: 21.13 mpg (US)
Thanks: 226
Thanked 1,353 Times in 711 Posts
Hybrid hydraulic systems for trucks.



100 Million Milestone for Eaton Hybrids · Environmental Management & Energy News · Environmental Leader


Hybrid Hydraulic, Hybrid Power


Hydraulic Launch Assist, Hybrid Hydraulic

>
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 08:04 AM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
redneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SC Lowcountry
Posts: 1,795

Geo XL1 - '94 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Boat tails and more mods
90 day: 72.22 mpg (US)

Big, Bad & Flat - '01 Dodge Ram 3500 SLT
Team Cummins
90 day: 21.13 mpg (US)
Thanks: 226
Thanked 1,353 Times in 711 Posts
More on trucks.

Eaton To Begin Providing Hydraulic Hybrid Retrofit Kit in 2010 - All Cars Electric

>
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 08:14 AM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 877
Thanked 2,024 Times in 1,304 Posts
Hydraulic Hybrid Bicycle Research | Clean Automotive Technology | US EPA

The weight of the accumulator would depend on its construction. Carbon fiber accumulators would save considerable weight.

The link above shows a HH bicycle. I am not saying it's practical but it certainly is do able.

My thoughts center around the early Insight I had and how it would be neat to find one that had a bad transmission or other components that made it too expensive to repair, and convert it to a HH.

With one of my drive designs in each front wheel and a carbon fiber accumulator replacing the battery and other components that would no longer be necessary, it would be interesting to compare it to the original designs efficiency.

The early Insight's battery only range was very limited, but they used the battery in the same way a HH would operate. Accumulator capacity would be minimal, at least half of the 14 gallons required to move something the weight of the Chrysler minivan.

Depending on the actual configuration, you could eliminate the transmission, axles, induction system, battery, battery modules, high power electrical system. and some other components I probably forgot.

I wonder what the mileage would compare to the 68 MPG I averaged in mine for over 20k miles, and I managed 70 MPG one day for 575 miles at average speeds of right at 55 MPH.

You could also toss the IC engine and use a battery to drive the primary pump, with no voltage conversion or modules, just an on off setup the kept the accumulator charged to a certain level, then drive the car and regenerate with the hydraulic accumulator and in wheel drives. Range would be limited like current electric designs, but it would be much more efficient in urban scenarios where there was a significant amount of regeneration opportunities.

regards
Mech
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 12:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 811 Times in 594 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redneck View Post
Hybrid hydraulic systems for trucks.
But notice where they get used: garbage trucks, and other applications that have an extreme stop & go cycle. Plus garbage trucks already have hydraulics for the lift/compact machinery... I'm not really convinced that a HH car would give much advantage in ordinary driving.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 01:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Phantom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Independence, KY
Posts: 603

Blue Meanie - '02 Volkswagon Golf TDI
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 48.52 mpg (US)

Wife's car - '05 WV Passat TDI

Rudy - '94 Chevy C2500
Thanks: 89
Thanked 47 Times in 44 Posts
I think the reason that they did it on those vehicles is they have the best advantage and using electric would not work well unless the engine is only used for charging.
__________________
I move at the speed of awesome.


"It's not rocket surgery!" -MetroMPG
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2011, 02:18 AM   #18 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Oregon Eugene
Posts: 47
Thanks: 8
Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts
That is awesome! I hope they perfect that hydraulic accumulator system. If gas prices go way up again then someone will perfect it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 09:51 PM   #19 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,907

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,475
Thanked 2,950 Times in 1,844 Posts
Green Car Congress: EPA places Parker Hannifin hydraulic hybrid technology on emerging technologies list
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 12:08 AM   #20 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
roflwaffle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,490

Camryaro - '92 Toyota Camry LE V6
90 day: 31.12 mpg (US)

Red - '00 Honda Insight

Prius - '05 Toyota Prius

3 - '18 Tesla Model 3
90 day: 152.47 mpg (US)
Thanks: 349
Thanked 122 Times in 80 Posts
The biggest problem w/ hydraulic hybrids in passenger vehicles is the weight of the accumulator. Even low weight CF accumulators still run about 240lbs for ~.3kWh of energy storage. A battery pack in something like the Prius is ~100lbs and has ~.7kWh of useful energy, so even low weight accumulators would clock in above 500lbs to get to the same amount of energy storage a 100lb NiMH battery pack has.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com