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willy57 04-29-2008 03:53 PM

Hydrogen Generator Experiment
 
This site is very informative. Thanks to all who post. I know most posts are much more complex but I found this simple fun experiment I wanted to share.

[spam link removed by admin]

Have fun. Looking forward to future posts.

AndrewJ 04-29-2008 11:46 PM

What exactly are you planning on doing with a hydrogen/oxygen bubbler?

Please note in the video that the battery charger that's running the bubbler is putting out 100 amps at 12 volts.

That's 1200 watts of output, with 50% charger efficiency that's 1800 watts at the outlet. "Cracking" hydrogen and oxygen gas from water is a VERY energy intensive process.
Not worth it IMO.

blackjackel 05-15-2008 02:12 AM

why not just use the engines heat to generate water vapor to go in with the air intake.... same thing, and it would allow the combustion crack it :D

Joseph Davis 05-15-2008 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackjackel (Post 25975)
why not just use the engines heat to generate water vapor to go in with the air intake.... same thing, and it would allow the combustion crack it :D

When combustion temps become high enough to seperate water into it's component hydrogen and oxygen it is called detonation. At the temps that shear water molecules it's too hot for H and O to recombine into water, so they seek out the next best thing: aluminum or steel in the combustion chamber. Not good.

For every pound worth of gasoline injected into an ICE there is approximately two pounds of water formed in the combustion reaction, which as wet steam is the primary motive force that pushes against the pistons. Kinda interesting that a gasoline engine is also an open cycle steam engine, eh?

88CRX 06-10-2008 02:21 PM

Any luck with this. A coworker metioned it to me acouple of months ago.

It seems like it won't work because it takes more energy to seperate the water molecule, than what you get out, when recombined.

But thier are so many people out there that swear to it. Even the cheap eBay bottle sellers get good reviews from the purchaser.

There must be something else going on here. Maybe small amoumts of hydrogen and oxygen added to the air/fuel mixture changes the burning characteristics???

Has anyone in this forum actually tried and got positive, no, or negative results?

88CRX 06-11-2008 04:33 AM

Okay i'm at home wondering about this, i found an articale in wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_Fuel_Injection

There might be merit to HHO, but not as the way they advertise... 50% is probably based on higher concentrations of Hydrogen, than what HHO generators can produce. But that small about might still give an improvement.

This part got my attention:

Automotive fuel enhancement systems work by injecting a hydrogen rich mixture, or pure hydrogen into the intake manifold of an internal combustion engine combined with air/fuel ratio, and timing modification. A small amount of hydrogen added to the intake air-fuel charge permits the engine to operate with leaner air-to-fuel mixture than otherwise possible.[3] As the air/fuel mix approaches 30:1 the temperature of combustion substantially decreases effectively mitigating NOx production.[3]

Under idle conditions power is only required for extraneous components other than the drive train, therefore fuel consumption can be minimized. A 50% reduction in gasoline consumption, at idle, was reported by numerically analyzing "the effect of hydrogen enriched gasoline on the performance, emissions and fuel consumption of a small spark-ignition engine".[4]

Under most loads near stoichiometric air/fuel mixtures are still required for normal acceleration, although under idle conditions, reduced loads, and moderate acceleration Hydrogen "addition" in combination with lean burn engine conditions "can guarantee a regular running" of the engine "with many advantages in terms of emissions levels and fuel consumption".[5]

Increases "in engine efficiency are more dominant than the energy loss incurred in generating hydrogen".[3] This is specifically with regard to use of a hydrogen reformer. Overall computational analysis "has marked the possibility of operating with high air overabundance (lean or ultra-lean mixtures) without a" substantial "performance decrease, but with great advantages on pollution emissions and fuel consumption".[4]

Overall comparing "the properties of hydrogen and gasoline, it is possible to underline the possibilities, for hydrogen fueled engines, of operating with very lean (or ultra-lean) mixtures,[6] obtaining interesting fuel economy and emissions reductions".[5] The "concept of hydrogen enriched gasoline, as a fuel for internal combustion engines, has a greater interest than pure hydrogen powered engines because it involves fewer modifications to the engines and their fueling systems".[5]

[edit] Engine Control

ECU or carburetor modifications are required to establish lean or ultra lean burn engine conditions; where the hydrogen permits leaner conditions than possible with solely hydrocarbon fuel.[7][3]

88CRX 06-11-2008 04:36 AM

I wish i can read the rest of this:

Performance and Fuel Consumption Estimation of a Hydrogen Enriched Gasoline Engine At Part-Load Operation

here: http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/2002-01-2196

88CRX 06-11-2008 04:38 AM

here is another one:

Lean-burn characteristics of a gasoline engine enriched with hydrogen from a plasmatron fuel reformer

here: http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16124816

88CRX 06-11-2008 04:42 AM

There is a bunch more.

Just search google: hydrogen enriched gasoline engine.

has anyone tried this, and taken before and after measurement?

Daox 06-11-2008 08:04 AM

I've heard of a lot of people try it, but none have gotten good results from it. However, hydrogen has been proven to improve a gasoline engine's efficiency. The problem with many kits IMO is none of them allow you to retune the engine to account for the changes in combustion characteristics.


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