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aerohead 05-13-2020 01:36 PM

I.C.E./B.E.V price parity today?
 
MOTOR TREND reported on a comparison between the Hyundai Kona 1,6T (ICE) model,and the Kona Electric.
*The 1.6T is $26,995.
*The Electric is $38,285.
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*At a 12-year vehicle life-span, 13,000 miles/year,and 2020 dollar-adjusted fuel and electricity pricing,and ignoring all other operating costs:
*The 1.6T costs $46,102 to own and operate.
*The Electric costs $ 46,127 to own and operate.
*A $25 dollar difference overall.
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Suggesting,very simplistically,that at least in the case of the Kona,the price of a BEV is ultimately no different than an equivalent ICE variant.
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*Production cost of the Kona Electric is $10.174/pound
*Production cost of the Nissan LEAF Plus SL is $11.304/pound
*Production cost of the Tesla Model 3,Standard Range Plus is $ 11.452/pound
*Production cost of the Honda Civic Type R is $ 11.467/pound
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Boy! Those are some expensive pistons!

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 05-13-2020 02:49 PM

Not so many people keep a vehicle for such a long time, and it's also worth to consider how full-hybrid systems such as the HSD have been taking over the role of a traditional automatic transmission in other markets where automatics were still not as popular as in the U.S. and Japan. Since the EV bits of some hybrids could effectively provide enough power just like their gasser counterparts do, hadn't it been for battery prices and range anxiety it would be possible to keep EV prices down if there wasn't an intention to increase their performance to the point of outperforming a gasser. This was basically the same strategy that initially seemed to attract more customers toward Diesel engines, until the complexity increased substantially to render them uncompetitive for many customers in more cost-sensitive segments.

aerohead 05-13-2020 03:15 PM

such a long time
 
I understand the point.What I was hoping to illustrate,was,in looking at life-cycle cost,The BEV would ultimately cost no more.The piston lobby probably wouldn't be real happy about diminishing markets and eventual extinction.But no one cries for the ice man,or livery stable owner.
The ICE behaves like an un-insulated home that must be heated and air conditioned for the next 200-years.You might have made out like a bandit on the purchase price,but over time,the home will cost more in energy cost than the home itself. Like a pickup truck.

rmay635703 05-13-2020 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerohead (Post 624110)
I understand the point.What I was hoping to illustrate,was,in looking at life-cycle cost,
The BEV would ultimately cost no more..

The EVs $665 title+ registration wipes out any real savings, gotta ban those taxes then we can talk

redpoint5 05-13-2020 03:28 PM

Sure, and average vehicle ownership length is 6.5 years, so the original owners never "break even" on an EV.

Then there's the lost investment potential of paying more upfront for a vehicle, which is the opportunity cost.

EV's aren't at parity with ICE for the typical person yet. The earliest prediction I've seen is 2025, but I think that's still optimistic. I'll go with 2030 as a WAG.

aerohead 05-13-2020 03:34 PM

tax/fee
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rmay635703 (Post 624111)
The EVs $665 title+ registration wipes out any real savings, gotta ban those taxes then we can talk

Is that nationwide? I haven't bought one,so I don't know. I've only bought one new car in my life,back in 1984.I don't remember being stung like that,or are they just discriminating against EVs? That would make sense here in Texas,where the government,at all levels 'ARE' the oil industry,and gas-guzzler makers, and might not look forward to reduced petroleum revenue.

oil pan 4 05-13-2020 03:51 PM

Retarded things like hybrid and electric vehicle tax isn't everywhere but it's spreading like cancer especially in blue states. Democrat never heard of a tax they didn't like.
In New mexico there was a hybrid and ev additional tax bill that died.
It's like so do you want more electric vehicles as part of the renewable energy BS thing you passed last year or tax the 2,500 electric vehicles that are already here and make sure that number doesn't grow?

roosterk0031 05-13-2020 04:01 PM

Registration fees are by state. My state charges 1% "List Price" for 7 years(then 3/4% for 2 years, 1/2% for 2 years then $50 year 12) plus a weight penalty of $0.40 per 100 lbs. so the BEV "may" cost over $1000 more Registration Fees.

I say "may" only because both of my Rogues have the same list price even though 4 years different and different trim levels.

IIRC Illinois fees recently just got increased to about $151 from $98ish and people were mad. Pretty cheap compared to Iowa until cars get 12 years old. I'd take the $151 forever over 1% for 7 years, or 5 years since I don't buy brand new.

aerohead 05-13-2020 04:10 PM

tax
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 624120)
Retarded things like hybrid and electric vehicle tax isn't everywhere but it's spreading like cancer especially in blue states. Democrat never heard of a tax they didn't like.
In New mexico there was a hybrid and ev additional tax bill that died.
It's like so do you want more electric vehicles as part of the renewable energy BS thing you passed last year or tax the 2,500 electric vehicles that are already here and make sure that number doesn't grow?

Seems like,if they're concerned about the highway tax fund,if say,your LEAF or Sonata were rated at 100 mpg-e,and the average annual mileage driven was x-miles,they'd just divide x by 100,get their equivalent gallons,and tax at the regular Federal and State fuel tax rate,per gallon.Otherwise its discriminatory and kinda like extortion.Do they punish us when we switch from incandescent light bulbs to LEDs?

oil pan 4 05-13-2020 04:24 PM

Here they wanted to charge $100 extra for electric and $50 for hybrids.
I would have to drive a versa around 20,000 miles per year to burn $100 worth of road tax fuel.
The hybrid only gets 20 to 35% better fuel economy than the all gas 4cyl. So I would have to drive somewhere around 30,000 miles per year to make up that difference.
If they pass that stupid law I will buy an oil burner car and sell the leaf.


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