Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-24-2012, 03:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Miami FL
Posts: 121
Thanks: 1
Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts
IMO variable compression ratio is the answer

Lets suppose your car has a 3.0L V6 and 10.0:1 compression ratio
then you have 300 cc that must be filled with air/gas mixture about an optimal 15:1 to ignite reliable and cleanly.

But during traffic jams or stoplights, it can switch to 30:1 compression ratio.
Thus you have only 100 cc to be filled with explosive mixture.

Of course an 3.0L engine at 30:1 compression ratio would guzzle more gas than a normal 1L engine at say 10:1 because of larger friction and pumping losses.

Do you think variable valve timing would be needed at all for significant consumption improvements?

Variable compression ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 12-24-2012, 04:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
...beats walking...
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: .
Posts: 6,190
Thanks: 179
Thanked 1,525 Times in 1,126 Posts
Variable Compression is ALREADY available by using a turbocharger, with the realtime adjustment of the "effective" compression-ratio occurring via computer-controlled dump-value!

It's a mechanically external "huff & puff" operation that 'recovers' some free energy from the exhaust...unlike complex, internal, VVT mechanisms which eat energy.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 05:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,745

Volt, gas only - '12 Chevrolet Volt Premium
90 day: 38.02 mpg (US)

Volt, electric only - '12 Chevrolet Volt Premium
90 day: 132.26 mpg (US)

Yukon Denali Hybrid - '12 GMC Yukon Denali Hybrid
90 day: 21.48 mpg (US)
Thanks: 206
Thanked 420 Times in 302 Posts
the answer is stop/start engine software and electric powered a/c, mild hybrids, etc.

also, in densely populated areas, mass transit/rapid transit.
__________________




  Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 06:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 877
Thanked 2,024 Times in 1,304 Posts
I filed a patent application for a variable displacement-compression engine in 2004, but later it evolved into an infinitely variable in wheel drive with capacitive regeneration. The patent was issued in 2010.

regards
Mech

http://www.animatedengines.com/gnome.html

Last edited by user removed; 12-24-2012 at 06:32 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 06:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1,756

spyder2 - '00 Toyota MR2 Spyder
Thanks: 104
Thanked 407 Times in 312 Posts
Yea variable compression is not the lowest hanging fruit, not even close. The practical limit for mechanical compression ratios is maybe 14:1, for full throttle. At say 20-30% load there is a benefit to increasing the compression ratio even if the valve timing mechanism allows minimal pumping loss, but why not just introduce a little (cooled) EGR to bump up combustion pressure/temperature?

Forced induction with a high mechanical "compression ratio" (we're really looking for the expansion ratio here), and say "Atkinson cycle" intake cams to increase low load efficiency and decrease detonation tendencies is essentially variable compression ratio.

I feel like the "upgrades" that engines are actually going to see on a large scale are direct injection (already happening), further upgradess to cam phasing systems (can get rid of most pumping losses if the range of movement for the cams is larger), forced induction (as a cheaper way to get most of the benefits of variable compression, variable displacement, and more complex variable valve timing), cooled EGR (already happening), and maybe laser ignition or something of that flavor. These things are highly reliable, simple, and relatively cheap to design in, compared to things like fancier valvetrains, variable compression, HCCI, etc. which have many more technical challenges.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 06:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,265

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 273
Thanked 3,569 Times in 2,833 Posts
Sounds like you want a diesel engine.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 09:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
Master Ecomadman
 
arcosine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 1,154

sc1 - '98 saturn sc1
Team Saturn
90 day: 43.17 mpg (US)

Airplane Bike - '11 home built Carp line Tour

rans - '97 rans tailwind

tractor - '66 International Cub cadet 129

2002 Space Odyssey - '02 Honda Odyssey EX-L
90 day: 28.25 mpg (US)

red bug - '00 VW beetle TDI

big tractor - '66 ford 3400

red vw - '00 VW new beetle TDI
90 day: 58.42 mpg (US)

RV - '88 Winnebago LeSharo
90 day: 16.67 mpg (US)
Thanks: 20
Thanked 337 Times in 227 Posts
It's the expansion ratio that counts. If you could have 10:1 compression and 14:1 expansion ratios, that would be the key. Honda has a small engine that does this.
__________________
- Tony

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 09:58 PM   #8 (permalink)
...beats walking...
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: .
Posts: 6,190
Thanks: 179
Thanked 1,525 Times in 1,126 Posts
...and, Direct Gasoline Injection (GM's SIDI) allows the compression-cycle to happen WITHOUT any "bucking" counter-pressure occuring from advanced-ignition timing, because combustion ONLY occurs on the down-stroke/expansion cycle, when it's finally injected into the cylinder ala' diesel cycle operation.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 10:30 PM   #9 (permalink)
Master Ecomadman
 
arcosine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 1,154

sc1 - '98 saturn sc1
Team Saturn
90 day: 43.17 mpg (US)

Airplane Bike - '11 home built Carp line Tour

rans - '97 rans tailwind

tractor - '66 International Cub cadet 129

2002 Space Odyssey - '02 Honda Odyssey EX-L
90 day: 28.25 mpg (US)

red bug - '00 VW beetle TDI

big tractor - '66 ford 3400

red vw - '00 VW new beetle TDI
90 day: 58.42 mpg (US)

RV - '88 Winnebago LeSharo
90 day: 16.67 mpg (US)
Thanks: 20
Thanked 337 Times in 227 Posts
Constant pressure (diesel) vs constant volume (spark ignition) combustion.
__________________
- Tony

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 11:48 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
ever_green's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 264

gueff - '19 Mercedes Benz A250 4MATIC AMG
90 day: 30.55 mpg (US)
Thanks: 8
Thanked 79 Times in 33 Posts
i think i read somewhere that someone has already planning for a variable compression car and has already developed a prototype. i think it was saab, not sure...

__________________
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com