It's ALIVE!!! (Twin Star video)
 

So, I posted in theycallmebryan's thread: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post131293 when I bought my Honda 1979 CM185T TwinStar, and promised that I'd soon have a thread dedicated to it.

Well, I suppose, now that it runs, here's the thread!

All the pics from that thread post:
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...r/DSCF2129.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...r/DSCF2128.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...r/DSCF2125.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...r/DSCF2124.jpg


Now, NEW PICS:
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...010091635a.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...1010091635.jpg


And a startup video!
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...1010091636.jpg

WOOT!

Always a special feeling when a "project" catches and runs of its own accord...

Got a 1972 CB350 recently (already running, though) and the minivan is quite a useful vehicle in that regard.

That dern'd Van has come in more handy than I could ever have expected, honestly.

I've been looking for a truck lately, but I may just cut the roof off the van behind the seats and make a removable hard top for it!!!

:X

I took her for a test ride today, but I didn't go over 35 (only for a second), and I was on a back road, because she's not legal at all... unfortunately, my old helmets don't fit anymore, so I gave them to my friend's kids... I have to get a new one before next season, I guess. Maybe I'll paint match it to the bike... LOL.

PS - Good luck finding factory match paint for your pre-1982 Honda bike... Honda didn't use discernible paint codes before that year. I may have to settle for non-OEM paint matched as close as a computer can get it, b/c there are dings and such on the bike that I may want to fix.

I can't find the TwinStar logos, either. I'll likely have them painted on, or just go without them, unfortunately.

As much as I want to keep this bike OEM as much as possible, I don't think it's going to happen very likely.. mufflers are the first thing, if I can get the old pair of Sportster mufflers that I gave to a friend who has never used them, I'll end up with them on the TwinStar, because I can't find OEM exact replacements, and I want to keep it quiet.

So - I now have to go over my bike's electrical system with a comb and see what I screwed up.

Not paying attention, the other day, and the bike still not being fully tuned and/or wired completely, I got tired of trying to kick start it, to no avail, so I jumped it off my van's 12V (oops) battery. (This was before I knew it was 6V system) It popped off at first, but ran like it didn't want to be alive... After several "near starts", I gave up for a minute, went to get the chainsaw ready to help my Father cut up firewood, and then went back to the bike. I left the jumper cables hooked up the whole time (bike's 6V battery is disconnected, so no harm there. Not even sure that battery is any good) and I think I may have just destroyed the ignition coil or some other component of the 6V system. Hopefully it wasn't something that will require pulling the engine apart, like the A.C. Generator.

There are connections not connected, and I just got the service manual today, cleaning up the images of bleed through, then going to print the 207 pages double-sided and put them in a binder in my Service Manual drawer.

I'm going to wait to play with it more until I get my quad running, so I can start clearing these peas from my plate... (metaphorically, of course.. I eat peas from a bowl.)

Once the Honda TRX 200 Quad is running, I'll move it back to my Father's house for storage, then move the TwinStar over here so I can really get to work on it.

Another thought - If I have to replace too many parts, I may consider changing to a 12V system after all. I can probably use most of the parts from a Lawn Tractor, like the starter solenoid, etc. I already know the starter can handle 12V, obviously... I jumped it with 12V and it didn't even get warm.

I've thought about it a bit more, and because of the lack of availability of OEM parts for reasonable prices, I'll probably end up modding it a bit.

For instance, the mufflers. I've got a pair from a '96 or so Sportster that are going on it, as soon as I expand/weld the head pipes. I'll probably double-wall the head pipes to keep heat in. I may also run an X or H pipe under the bike to help with low-end torque by scavenging the exhaust pulses together.

I had already planned on doing the lights with LEDs, all except the headlight. Not sure what I'll do with that, yet.

Gonna do a complete tuneup while I'm at it, just to make sure that everything is fresh. Instead of replacing the plugs, I'm just going to take them out, gap/clean them, and reinstall them. Even though they're probably the originals, they've only got 1100 or so miles on them, so they're not worn at all.

Meanwhile, the fate of the parts bike has also been determined... at least the front end of it will be used for my Father's Tri-Sport, I want to see if we can get that thing registered and on the road. It won't be original, but who cares... It's got a Yamaha 4 wheeler front end on it now, and it's an abomination. You can lift/shake the handlebars all over the place. I told him I'd donate whatever parts were necessary to make it mobile again, except my hand controls. We'd have to use the 4 wheeler parts for that. So he'll probably end up w/ the 90CC engine/trans, too.

If you swap the lights to LED correctly and have a kick starter, you won't need much of a battery. It might be possible to coax 12 volts out of your alternator, or use one of them dc-dc converters to keep the battery topped off under the reduced electrical load.

P.S. Glad you got a chance to ride it :)

Nice find:thumbup:

I love the van hauler also!!!

DCB -

The A.C. Generator on it, I"m not sure what it directly puts out, but after the rectifier, it puts out like 7.2 or 8.3 VDC at the battery at certain RPMS. It doesn't even start charging until 2,000 RPM according to the FSM.

Many of those old generators where built in halves. Two six volts halves that combined to make 12 volts, it probably just has the one half, you can probably find a similar stator assembly that will bolt up that is 12 volts. I ran one for years on just one six volt half to keep the 12v battery from completely dying it only had a rectifyier, no regulator :) and no lights, no nothing except power to the coils.
What is the diameter of the stator? I might have one that will fit, and the regulator, rectifiers to go with it.

If it has two stator coils they might be rewired for 12, or if it is just one then maybe rewind it with twice as much wire (smaller diameter of course).

Also, it is AC, coming out of the stator so you can cobble together a transformer too, or a couple of dissected and backwards wall warts to ramp up the voltage. You need a combination of transformers that would add up to ~55 volts, put all the secondaries in series, call them the primaries, and put the primaries in parallel (and in phase) and call them the secondaries and rectify that.

:)

I can email you the section of the FSM dealing w/ the Generator/Charging circuit, and you can see if there's anything in there that will answer your questions. I'm not with the bike right now, and won't have time to see it much until the quad is fixed and in storage.

I always look forward to build threads. They usually help us all avoid pitfalls when making similar modifications or builds. Thanks for Trailblazing!

Well, I'm not sure how many people are going to be building the TwinStar setup, but there are quite a few bikes with "recycled" technology that stems from the same inline twin, so it may help someone out, I guess!

Tygen1 - Woops, I thought I had your email, but I don't. Obviously, I haven't emailed you anything, then.

I dunno if the 200CC ATV Honda motor I have will have the same size parts or not?

meanjoe75fan -

I second that WOOT! I was about to say that Christ' CM185T reminds me of the 1972 CB350 I used to own, except it's shinier and closer to OEM. I gave mine away to a Honda-phile who was going to restore it. I should give him a call and see what's up.

Nostalgia *sigh*,

CarloSW2

Carlos -

Interestingly enough, I almost bought a CB350 last night in decent condition for $100. It was given as payment for services, and the guy didn't want it. I didn't have $100, though, to spend on hand without thinking about it, so I passed on it. Dern it all. That would have been a nice rider, I bet.

So, after some thinking today, I decided a few things:

I plan on using this bike to get me around, which includes short trips to the store, etc. I may also need, at some point, to carry light tools with me, carry a lunch, a change of clothes, or any of a multitude of other things.

I'll never have anyone on the back of the bike.

My back hurts constantly, due to damage caused years ago. I'd like a back rest for long trips.

Since I'll never have anyone on the back of the bike, I can use their leg area for bags. Since that constitutes a seat that is wasted space, I can put a backrest there, instead. Behind the backrest, is the perfect place for a small trunk.

See where this is going?

I don't think I'm going to bother keeping the bike completely OEM, rather going the utilitarian route on it. It's nice to have pretty things, but in classic me-ism, Functional is just as pretty as Pretty is. Besides, a mobility device is a tool, right? When's the last time you had your favorite power drill chromed? Exactly.

So, I'm thinking about making sort of a "dresser kit" for the bike... Of course, this will probably require that I use a slightly larger engine, or upgrade the one that's already on it, in the event that I ever want to get on the highway and go faster than 50-55 MPH. That's way in the future, though.

So, as soon as I figure out whether I'm keeping the quad or not, and finish up a couple deals with other people, the bike is coming over, and I get to spend some time working on it. Of course, I want the bags to be DIY as much as possible.

I think I smell a build thread for this one, even though it's going to be a rare- and far-between series.

Christ -

I got the CB350F *because* it had an uncool out-of-fashion sissy bar :

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...nda-cb350f.jpg
(Back-then-brand-new 1990 CRX to the left)

Aesthetically I liked that the sissy bar angle was close to the angle of the front fork.

The accidental-practical part was that I could bungie-strap my backpack or other crap to the sissy bar as needed. You could start with a sissy bar, and use that as a "mount" for different dresser kits that solve different problems. People will think you are a Transformer if the rear of the bike keeps changing.

CarloSW2

Transformers, they're more than meets the eye...

TRANSFORMERS - They're Honda bikes in disguise!

TBH, I was thinking about designing/building a dresser setup that also had some aero benefit, or at least a perceived aero benefit. Reason being, I'd love to be able to stick w/ the 185 and still get on the highway reliably, and maybe even make enough aero benefit and increase the torque capacity of the OEM motor (without sacrificing reliability) to hold a decent 60 MPH at lower RPMs.

Nice ride. Will be living vicariously as the auranthetics are off the road for the winter.

I love simple fixes. Motorbike...$100. Profiting off other peoples mechanical ignorance...Priceless

Thanks to you, my friend, I'm doing some EOC in the minivan. I suppose I can let you life-leech off my bike, in return! :P

Keep in mind, that I won't be able to do much on it this Winter, until I can get everything (legally) sorted out on it. Unfortunately, the kid I bought it from hasn't returned my calls as far as getting a title for it, so I'll end up having to go another route, which really kills any plans of riding it legally on the warmer days of Winter and into Spring.

Meanwhile, I'll just work on it as I have the gumption to do something, and when my Son allows me to have a free minute while the Wife is at school.

Life-leech. Have to add that to my resume. heh.

Better watch out. I'm getting addicted to EOC. It has gotten to the point where having the engine on just feels wrong.

That's how I am in the wife's Saturn. Of course, I know that running the engine in her car is wrong, since it's so far out of spec and something's not working correctly. I just run the hell out of it for a few seconds, and turn it off whenever possible.

I had a Ford Aerostar van, best human/cargo transport van EVER.

Until you put a 440 with a 6 pack in the back of one. :) Then, you can't carry crap. The firewall ends up at the back of the front seats, so that doesn't leave much room for anything.

I wish I could have driven that van... too bad it wasn't mine.

No joy on the 12v stator for that bike. I just don't have anything that matches up... You might try a CM400 from that same era, but I doubt it will be cost effective...
If it's Eco-Motor Cycling your after, then there are some better options out there. Smaller, lighter, narrower tires. Think 90cc horizontal with a step-over pressed steel frame. Get's 90mpg with the throttle pined. There are some nice chinese engine options that can take them up to 140cc and greater HP potential than your 185. Just some thoughts...

Ok, let's focus more on upping the output of the 6V system, then. Can we work on that?

I really want to play around w/ the 185 a bit to get my small engine fingers about me before I go really moving on to anything else. I'm almost certain based on past experience with other motors that there is just ALOT of efficiency to be unlocked with this engine, and I've seen reports of 75-80MPG with careful operation, although EPA estimates it in the mid-late 60's.

I'm thinking with some gear changes, aero enhancements, and a few engine tweaks, I can probably see 90's or quite possibly 100's with it, for very little invested, and still have a decent commutah! with some old skool style to boot. The tires on it are about as thin as they come, too... they're only 3.60/16 on the back and I think 3.40/17 on the front.

While working on this bike, I'm going to focus on lightening it up (like it needs it) and tuning the motor for better low-speed grunt (it can handle 30 in 4th gear already. I can almost take off/accelerate from 2nd to 3rd with a 2-step takeoff.)

I want to be able to carry a small load with it without it feeling like I'm back on a pedal bike again, handle decently (a function of the rider, mostly), and still be smooth and efficient. I'm sure there are bikes that could do this, but not for what I paid for this one... and the resale value on a restored one just isn't high enough to warrant reselling to get something else, especially now that I have to "get a title" for it. Damn kids...

Can I use a Lithium variant battery on this bike?

I can fit a 1" x 3.5" x 7" pack under the seat, but I'm worried that the alternator won't be able to charge the battery properly... I'm hoping for 2x6V 1" x 3.5" x 3.5", so I can wire them in parallel for now, then in series to make 12V once I've gotten the upgrade parts.

Any idea anyone?

Also - I've found joy in my title search, and it's not going to cost me an arm and a leg!

Christ,

Just finished reading through this post. Possibly I missed the reason you wanted to bring this up to a 12 volt system. Was that just to be able to use standard automotive LED's? Also you'd obviously need to toss in a 12 Volt headlight. If you measured the output of your rectifier and it is as high as 8 volts, then the system is probably charging properly.

I bought my wife a cm200t about 18 years ago to learn on and that bike regularly returned 70 mpg with no mods. Now she's riding a Honda 650 that still gets her around 50-60 mpg.

As far as the lithium idea goes, probably not a good one. Lithium cells in general need to be charged within a specific range depending on their particular type of chemical makeup. Some like being charged a little above 4V(per cell), some prefer around 3.6V/cell. A standard charger would probably toast them. However, you might just disconnect the whole charging system, use a couple of Dewalt 36V batteries paralleled up, get a DC to DC converter to step back down to 12 volts and then pull the batteries to charge them in the standard Dewalt charger. Just another possibility.
JJ

The reason for wanting to upgrade to 12V output was for the ability to use accessories, modern lighting, etc. I've seen how dim the 6V headlight is, and it's just not safe at speed out here on the country roads.

I had also briefly considered what you've suggested with the drill motor batteries, except using the Lithium inline packs and charging them with the normal charger, and it really seems like too much work/money for the minimal power draw the AC generator has on the motor under it's current configuration. I did, however, consider using a microswitch to control a charge relay that will stop the alternator from charging unless the throttle is off (decel).

What about Ni-Cd or Ni-MH batteries? Would either of those accept the type of charge I'd be giving them?

PS - The LED's, it really doesn't matter if I have a 12V or 6V system, I can just wire the panel differently for them. I'm probably going to keep the OEM configuration for lighting, then add in strips of LEDs placed in such a way that they make the size/shape of the vehicle known to other operators on the roads. Since I'm decreasing the profile from slim to anorexic, and smoothing out the body a bit, it might be a little more difficult for motorists to recognize that I'm on the road, so I want to maximize the visibility of the bike without compromising my goals.

You could probably get by with NICads. I don't remember any really special conditions for charging them and they can pull a strong current for starting the bike. Their normal voltage /cell is 1.2V so you'd need to series up ten of them for 12 V. Looks like the standard lead acid for that bike is 12Ahrs. Don't know that you would absolutely need that much reserve, but probably ought to try to get close to that. The RC guys have some decent posts on how to solder cells together if that is the route you choose.
JJ

Not awful worried about the electric starter, since once the bike is tuned, I'll primarily be kick starting it anyway.

I was thinking about doing 6-8 packs of 5 in series for a total of 6v per pack, then wiring those packs in parallel for now, then in series when I get the 12V stator coil I need.

The cool thing is that I can get NiCad and NiMH batteries from salvage electronics... things such as cordless phones often use a 3 cell pack of them, at 3.6V. Take the pack apart, and you've got 3 AAA batteries that will run your remotes and such, and you can recharge them easily.

For the bike, I'll probably buy new, though.

Thanks for the input, it's much appreciated, especially after hearing from my Father in Law all about how it's stupid to run both pipes into a collector, I'm making too much work of the bike, blah blah blah, as though it's any of his business, or trying to sound like he actually knows anything about how engines work. He's another one that thinks putting higher octane gas into an engine means it will fire up easier...

Cool, hope it works well. JJ

BAM!

Got a deal on some Prius GenII battery modules, one of which will become the new battery for the TwinStar!

Also, changed the bars to those from a 1985 CB125S, Since they're shorter, and less "Japanese School Boy".

Working on other designs in my head, but I've basically removed the aero idea from my plans for right now, and I'm just working on tucking everything and whatnot. Need to get a shorter clutch cable, some other stuff, and do up some wiring that isn't "up to par" as far as I'm concerned, like the glass tube fuse.

Haven't started on the intake manifold yet, haven't been able to source a cheap decent merge collector, either. Still working on that part, though... Don't really want to run with two open pipes under the engine.

Also, checking to see if I can retrofit a custom hitch plate from a 1978 GoldWing I bought recently.

Have also been feeling out for really cheap bikes to fix up for Spring, so I can get some cash flow in the Spring.

Prius deals all round!

How are you going to charge those? Don't know if you know but they have to be clamped tight and charged VERY carefully. Not to freak you out or anything but you don't want to do this:http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/pri_batt_400.jpg

From here:Prius Battery Photos

Sweet score. I'm looking too.

I'm not sure, I was kinda hoping I could case it in metal and just let it charge off the AC generator on the bike.

I guess that won't work out?

I actually wonder if 7VDC at 3.3A will even charge the battery, or if it will only get a charge when I'm at higher engine speeds? Maybe I won't be able to use these...

Specs on the alternator of the TwinStar:


At 5K rpm the output should be 7.0 Volts at 3.3 amps
10K rpm 8.3 Volts with a max current of 6.0A

I think the damage in the pic was done over several hours. I doubt your average bike trip would be that long.

You might just have to keep an eye on it, or a hand, to make sure it's not overheating. Warm is fine as far as I know. My NiMH cordless drill packs get warm to the touch when charging.

I've decided that I'm going to mount it flat, with a clamp plate over the exposed side, holding it with a fair amount of clamping force. I'm figuring about 3-4 bolts on both 11" sides, and 2 bolts on the 5" sides, with 3mm plates of aluminum as clamp plates. That should help keep it cool, as well?