Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-28-2014, 03:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 28,702
Thanks: 8,147
Thanked 8,925 Times in 7,368 Posts
I second the ball peen hammer suggetion.

Reynolds Number
If the dimples are correctly sized for a golf ball, logically, either bigger or smaller dimples would work on a car. I wonder which it is.

Rather than dimples, I'm more currious about faceted panels, like the F-117 jet pane. Here is a body based on a 6v octahedral-symmetry sphere. Obviously it is more aerodynamic than the prolated octahedron it is based on. One could test 2v and 4v versions as well to see if there is a drag minima at less than a smooth compound curved surface.


  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 04-28-2014, 04:35 PM   #12 (permalink)
Master EcoWalker
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 3,999

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 54.23 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,714
Thanked 2,247 Times in 1,455 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
Cortex generators are what the world really needs.
Wow. I thought it would be cool to have a VW Beetle covered with golf ball dimples - and a Golf badge.
But a Beetle with a cortex pattern, that would beat it never mind the badge.

"Does it really reduce drag?"
"It thinks so..."
__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, tiny PV panel, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop), tightened wheel nut.
lifetime FE over 0.2 Gigameter or 0.13 Megamile.


For confirmation go to people just like you.
For education go to people unlike yourself.

Last edited by RedDevil; 04-29-2014 at 06:13 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 08:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 28,702
Thanks: 8,147
Thanked 8,925 Times in 7,368 Posts
Dimples? I'd heat a spot the size of a dime cherry red and hit it once with the ball peen. Save concaving the surrounding metal

I wasn't going to post this. But you made me, OK?

from: The Bubble Monster Strikes Again | Art Car Central
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 10:05 PM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
oldtamiyaphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,510

UFI - '12 Fiat 500 Twinair
Team Turbocharged!
90 day: 40.3 mpg (US)

Jeep - '05 Jeep Wrangler Renegade
90 day: 18.09 mpg (US)

R32 - '89 Nissan Skyline

STiG - '16 Renault Trafic 140dCi Energy
90 day: 30.12 mpg (US)

Prius - '05 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 50.25 mpg (US)

Premodded - '49 Ford Freighter
90 day: 13.48 mpg (US)

F-117 - '10 Proton Arena GLSi
Pickups
Mitsubishi
90 day: 37.82 mpg (US)

Ralica - '85 Toyota Celica ST
90 day: 25.23 mpg (US)

Sx4 - '07 Suzuki Sx4
90 day: 32.21 mpg (US)

F-117 (2) - '03 Citroen Xsara VTS
90 day: 30.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 325
Thanked 452 Times in 319 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Rather than dimples, I'm more currious about faceted panels, like the F-117 jet pane.
I believe the F-117 is the least aerodynamic aircraft ever to fly sucessfully.
__________________






  Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2014, 04:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 28,702
Thanks: 8,147
Thanked 8,925 Times in 7,368 Posts
Further to my point. The edge angles on the F-117 are equivalent to a 2v octahedron, the 6v version I showed is within percentage points of a smooth compound curve as the angles approach 180°.

I suggest there may be a drag minima somewhere in between, where the edges encourage reattachment of the airflow.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2014, 02:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,312
Thanks: 24,439
Thanked 7,386 Times in 4,783 Posts
somewhere

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Further to my point. The edge angles on the F-117 are equivalent to a 2v octahedron, the 6v version I showed is within percentage points of a smooth compound curve as the angles approach 180°.

I suggest there may be a drag minima somewhere in between, where the edges encourage reattachment of the airflow.
The box cavity performs according to this principle.The sharp trailing edge precipitate separation,but the trailing edge of the cavities step lies along the 'Template' line,if you will.This trailing edge allows reattachment and capture of a locked vortex which allows the inviscid outer flow to close,decelerating and building pressure to cut pressure drag.
We'd pay for the circulation of all the vorticity,but I suspect we'd see an overall drag reduction.
And we wouldn't have to do the compound curves which are the most difficult to pull off.
This would be a great graduate research project for scale testing at a university wind tunnel.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
freebeard (05-04-2014)
Old 05-03-2014, 02:59 PM   #17 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,312
Thanks: 24,439
Thanked 7,386 Times in 4,783 Posts
dimples

Quote:
Originally Posted by backpacker3 View Post
Hey guys sorry if this gets posted a lot I had just seen some things that said that adding dimples works and just thought I would post this.
Xist the I saw the mythbusters episode too that's where the idea came from I didn't realize the general consensus here was that it didn't work. I figured that it might be useful for someone who maybe had removed roof rails or something
Ike that as an option to cover the roof of the car with something that might help a little bit for fuel economy. But hey if this end up corralled or closed it was just a though so no big deal

Not that it really matters at this point but if you put some masking or painters tape on the outside of the balls they would come out easy.
I want to say that it was Slowmover who shared a link to an Ethiopian gentleman's Masters Thesis on pickup truck aerodynamics.I've looked back and can't find the post.Sorry!
Anyway,within the thesis,the author reported that the pickup maintained 30 millimeters of Laminar Boundary Layer (LBL) at the nose before transition to full Turbulent Boundary Layer (TBL).Which means that without any 'dimpling',the truck was behaving as fully-dimpled within just over 1-inch distance from its nose.
The TBL would create a constant drag coefficient and the separation line would be fixed.
If any benefit came to the Mythbusters' car it would not have been from the Reynolds number effect,but rather from the dimpling along the roof /C-pillars acting as vortex generators.
The second drive of the car would also have been conducted under a 'warmer' condition which always improves mpg.
Only full instrumentation of the car would have revealed a full and accurate account of all the variables at play during 'testing.'
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/

Last edited by aerohead; 05-03-2014 at 03:00 PM.. Reason: remove redundat info
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2014, 03:53 PM   #18 (permalink)
Too busy for gas stations
 
Superfuelgero's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: The intersection of TN/MS/AL
Posts: 460

Turtle - '92 Honda Civic Vx
Team Honda
90 day: 67.09 mpg (US)

Rolla - '10 Toyota Corolla Le

Beast - '91 Chevy V2500

Bus - '01 VW Eurovan MV

Speed - '93 Harley bored and storked Harley w/ turbo/ nitrous
90 day: 53.09 mpg (US)

Cal - '68 Ford Mustang GT/CS
Thanks: 87
Thanked 176 Times in 114 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile View Post
I believe the F-117 is the least aerodynamic aircraft ever to fly sucessfully.
True, it actually wants to backwards and upside down. If it wasn't for fly-by-wire systems, it wouldn't fly.

I do like the idea of trying to change the surface. When I painted my car, I had to break up the paint work. With the rough fill primer on, it was noticeably quieter. Probably had to do with a separation layer.
__________________
Shooting for 600 miles of range at 65-70 mph out of a vx.

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 10:59 PM   #19 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
TheManVan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: My house
Posts: 34
Thanks: 3
Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts
Wouldn't you be increasing the frontal area by adding enough material to indent with said dimples? just askin!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 11:10 PM   #20 (permalink)
...beats walking...
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: .
Posts: 6,190
Thanks: 179
Thanked 1,525 Times in 1,126 Posts
Used-car salesman to customer: "...those aren't hail damage dimples, they're aero-divets..."

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to gone-ot For This Useful Post:
aerohead (05-06-2014)
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com