Just starting on wheel skirts, need opinions/ideas
 

I desided to hit home depot and see what I could come up with..

I figured on this flat steel thats easy to bend into shape..
I'm going to make L brackets to mount to the inner wheel wells and drill two holes.. one to mount them and one for mounting the skirt..

I have bolts that i'll weld to the frame and use washers and lock washers with wingnuts for easy removal from the backside..

I'm wondering how to cover these? fiberglass? any ideas? :confused:
My wheels and tires tuck if I were to slam the vehicle down to the ground..
but the bottom needs to kick out slightly to make room for the wheel/tire..

I taped some cardboard onto the tire to use as my gap..
are my angles looking ok or are they too steep?

I'm going to weld the frame together and use some wire to make an outter frame to fit snug..

If you have any ideas what to use to cover this, kick em my way..
I'm taking my time and in no rush :thumbup:

heres my mockup.
be kind, I've never made these :D
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030903.jpg

Top view
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030897.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030900.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030904.jpg

back view..
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030898.jpg

any constructive criticism is truely appreciated.. :thumbup:
Thanks in advance

And I actually think it'll look pretty cool as well..
I'll have to fire up the compressor and hit it with some factory paint..
Rendering..
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...ods/skirt2.jpg

Quite decent.
What material is that cover?

Doesn't look like a bad start to me. Lets see it finished! :)

Yeah, it looks like you're on the right track! Excited to see the finished product, :)

so far its just metal flat stock..
I'm thinking glass is the way to roll when covering it.. :confused:

I took that off weeks ago, I also ditched that billet grill, dropped 8lbs..
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...r/P1030889.jpg

Chris: check AndrewJ's Civic CX aero mods thread - he used some thin plastic to form his wheel skirts.

I'd like to see someone do some foam sculpting to make a set of glass skirts though. Mostly because that's what I'm thinking of doing for my partial Kamm back this summer, and I'd like to learn from someone else's mistakes rather than my own :).

I second Frank's comment: lose the bug deflector. If it's there to protect the paint, I'd put on some of that plastic film instead.

EDIT: whoops, I see you've already taken it off.

I've made lots of stuff doing foam/fiberglass work..

I use expansion foam, let it setup and shave it as i see fit,
then I lay glass on it..

then you pour gasoline inside and it eats away all the foam.. :thumbup:

watch what a drop of gasoline does to styrofoam.. ;)

if it were me i would bring it back in slower on the bottom back edge.
i would keep it high enough and/or out far enough to be able to get the wheel off with the suspension all the way down.

A good primer for composite construction is Rutan's "Moldless Composite Sandwich Contruction." ~$15

Online vendors like Aircraft Spruce even sell kits aimed at first time aircraft builders on learning composite construction. The $80 price tag is definately high, but if a lot of parts are going to be built then the mistakes that are saved may be worth it...

If you guys build with heavy duty S-Glass or seek aerodynamic perfection, then learning how to make lightweight, smooth finishes might be valuable. This is the best site I have come across.

There are other, easier ways to learn the art and make composite pieces, but these are the best in my opinion. To stay on topic, I'd use 1/8" foam that can be heat-molded into shape, then sandwich that with some lightweight E-glass. As far as resin is concerned, Epoxy is the only thing to consider. Polyester resin is porous and lower grade...which may be fine for a short-term fairing. I suppose it's a question of buying the long-term investment or going cheap now.

- LostCause

E-Glass?

either way, made a little progress...
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030905.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030906.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030907.jpg

I had my wire feed welder bind up on me a few times, PITA>>

I wish I had gotten into this far sooner or I wouldn't have gone as wide as I
did with the wheels/tires, or else I could have just made a fairly flush cover....

What's the plastic film and where to get it? Finish paint on my front panel has taken a real beating, primer showing all over the place.
(Sorry for OT but hopefully others will also appreciate your reply).

E-Glass is a type of fiberglass often used in the electronics industry (E means electrical). Motherboards are made from this type of fiberglass. It is cheap and easy to work with, but not very strong.

S-Glass is type of fiberglass used in load bearing structures (S means structural). It is a different chemical formulation that is 30% stronger (tensile strength) while being 15% lighter.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/i...soaS/Graph.jpg

If you really care about weight, sandwiching foam (or honeycomb if you really, really care) between super-lightweight fiberglass (or Kevlar if you really x 3 care) is the way to go. Fender skirts aren't a big deal, but it would be good for anyone considering new hoods, body panels, etc.

You see the same stuff covering ipods and film lenses. Here's a review article of 3M's Scotchguard Paint Protection Film.
__________________________________________________ ______

You have balls of steel. When I saw this all I could imagine was: bzzzzzzzzzz...POW! :D
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030905.jpg

Great job on the progress. I hope you show pictures of how you attach the metal to the body.

- LostCause

oh yeah, I think my attachment setup will be pretty trick..

I orignally had one bar in the middle going upward but desided to run 2 insted..
That way I have more attachment points and I canget to them to remove it easier..

k
 

Need help here. hu?

you will need Bondo and hot Chicks.


you are doing good put metal on it and Bondo it.
then Jack the truck up and take the wheel off and fiberglass the wheel skirt from the inside.Then pull off the tape and make a fiber glass part.:turtle:


Take yer time most of all.

What you are doing is custom Thee is no money in custom.
Email@hybrideffects.com

to bad you do not work for a design company.

Thanks Franklin

i did one in 05 but took it back off, and remade with clearance to remove wheel with suspension down.

I've hit a snag in the road here..

My orignal setup wouldnt work because the brackets wouldn't have anything to attach to..
I thought the inside lip was continious all the way around for an inch deep, but once i removed the splash sheild, my assumption left me having to reconfigure things..

so insted of the double setup I was going for, i ended up having to go back to an orignal setup of only having one leg going up..
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030916.jpg

This is how I was going to attach the skirt orignally, but I came up on wheel/tire travel conflict even after trimming the bolt and threading it..
I drilled through the steel and tacked a bolt through it for an attachment point.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030911.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030914.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030915.jpg

heres the bottom edge contouring the bedside..
(rear)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030917.jpg
(front)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030918.jpg

so after ditchign the upper wingnut idea, I thought, Why do I need to fully remove it?
So off I went to home depot (less than a block away) and I came up with this idea..
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030922.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030923.jpg

With that problem solved I've hit somewhat of a stumpped state..
I dont know how to frame the outside edge..

So I tacked some wire to see how well it would work..
its.. o...k.. but i'm not happy with it intirely..
I was running out of light, so I packed it in.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030925.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030926.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030928.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030929.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030930.jpg

How should I finish this? I've got mental constipation here.. :)

There are two possible ways I could think up of right off the bat.

Keep the wire for rigidity. If you use ABS plastic or something similar, you could notch the top edges of the fairing to create a ton of little flaps that can be folded over to create a lip perpendicular to the fairing face. Stick velcro to those flaps and the inner lip of the fender well. When you close the fairing, just stick your hand up in the well and push the velcro together. This is essentially what MetroMPG did. He ran into problems with the velcro eventually separating, so a better attachment might be needed.

The other idea is the reverse, if you use a rigid fairing like fiberglass, coroplast, aluminum, etc. Get a piece of thin aluminum angle and cut notches along one side so you can create a curve. Since you probably don't want 100 holes in your fender well, figure out a tightenable, secure clamp that can hold the angle to the lip. Stick velcro long the edge facing the fairing and on the fairing inside edge. When you close the fairing, the velcro will seat automatically.

I think it is important to make an air tight seal. If you don't use velcro, a gasket made out of a bicycle inner tube might be substituted. Leaving any type of hole will probably be detrimental. In any case, the fairing will still be better than nothing.

Definately an inconvenience, but easily solved by by putting the car into neutral and rolling it a bit. I suppose filling tires with air will become a major PIA, but not a showstopper. I do like the valve stem idea, though. It could potentially replace balance weights with something functional.

- LostCause

I'd just roll forward till I saw the valve stem.. no biggie.. I mite just get some plastic and cover what I have, but I have more contorurs than some of you have with having to accomodate the wider tires/wheels..

I want form and function..

I'm looking for the easy way out and getting a bit impatient.. :(

I bet that coroplast would be a great setup.
Maybe use that stuff to get the base started then maybe lay a layer or two of glass on that to give it the desired finish to be filled primed and painted..

Frank, got any pic's?

Hey Frank, what do you drive? got any pictures or specs?

Cars on non-level ground are even easier to roll.

Who kidnapped the Frank Lee who's all about practical solutions??? I want him back!

Hack Job time!

I desided that if I was going to really go ahead with the wheel well covers that I was going to
do it right with fiberglass and a clean finish to compliment the truck, or at least make it less noticable

So I desided to do a "test run" with some hack job skirts..
I want #'s first before I go ahead with the good stuff..

theres a metal support bridging the lowest section of the wheel well opening and its bolted in place..

the rest is duct taped to hell!
I also removed the tailgate..

this tank is going to be crap because I road raged on some dickhead that chucked a fast food soda at me as he swerved around me, So I popped it into 3rd, spun em and chucked my chocolate shake back at em, direct windsheild hit! Put them in their place.. Had to burn some carbon out anyways ;) he was on my ass highbeaming me and honking while I was in the slow lane on a 3 lane freeway with nobody else in any of the other lanes, I was doing a solid 55mph..

I used Coroplast for the panels.. super light.. I didn't realize how cheap this stuff was..
So I went this route..
looks getteo as hell, I can deal with it for a tank or two (duct tape permitting)

Maybe this will help me gain back what I lost going WOT in it.. I'm at 1/2 tank now..
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030938.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030937.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...s/P1030939.jpg

Chris -

The temporary setup is the right thing to do to "prove the mod".

CarloSW2

Except you're not going to get any useful data because you've changed too many things.

Tank to tank testing is dodgy at best. But you've thrown a spanner in the works by also removing the tail gate. (Also - why would you remove the tailgate?)

You should only change one variable at a time.

People don't do stuff like that around here because they're too likely to get shot. :mad: And deservedly so. An armed populace is a polite populace.

Put the gate back on. You can't get meaningful results if you're testing more than one variable at a time - if your results are the same as what you've been getting all this time, does it mean the gate is good and the skirts bad, or the gate bad and skirts good? Or both have no effect?

This was a big thing the prof harped on in Statistics 230, run several tests, then run all the data together into one result for a big picture - don't try to test everything at once. That way lies madness.

Stats 230 was where I discovered I actually enjoy working in Excel.

Chris - I just had a look at your fuel log. You are not going to be able to see any difference from the wheel skirts just by watching your tank to tank results. (Not pointing at you specifically - this applies to anybody, really.)

Let's say your skirts are hypothetically good for a 2% boost in FE. Based on your current 90 day average of 28.7 mpg, that means you'll have to be able to detect a 0.55 mpg difference. Ain't gonna happen.

Consider that the average difference between your 3 fill-ups to date is 2.16 mpg and you can see the problem here.

Again, I'm not saying that the skirts aren't worth doing. But the only way to test them thoroughly is either with instrumentation (eg. ScanGauge) in an as-controlled-as-possible A-B-A scenario, or multiple coast-down runs, also controlled as possible.

is removing the tailgate more of a problem, then a help?

Have a look at this page re. the tailgate question.
http://www.cartalk.com/content/colum...ctober/05.html

I saw a writeup somewhere saying that whether up or down is better depends on the length of cab and/or bed - but I do like the coherent explanation in the link above.

I think a tonneau cover beats an uncovered bed, regardless of whether the gate is up or down. And an aero pickup bed cover such as you'll find discussed somewhere in this forum should beat a tonneau cover, if its well designed.

my factory tonneau weights in at about 200 pounds, i just took that off hoping to gain more MPG... i'm gonna do some expermenting myself to see some actual results, i saw the mythbusters episode, and still not sold on the idea, it was 2 different drivers

There are a couple of threads here that deal with the question more scientifically than MythBusters did, and the results almost always suggest tailgate up is better than down or off.

true, which is why I'm going to put it back on, only driving I did was a test drive to mcdonnalds and back because I was too tires to bust out the WOK and make something good :D

Sup Rob!!!!

I know for a fact that on a "unibody" truck Dodge Rampage (Ramlet) that the tailgate down or missing made a positive result in aero because my top speed went up 4mph.. :thumbup: It wasn't a conventional truck by any means..

it was a 1980's Dodge Charger with an El Camino truck bed..

Ditching that tonneau of yours will drop alot of weight. Isn't your tonneau ribbed in surface design? (Ribbed for her pleasure?) :D
I'd wait for it to stop snowing alltogether before dropping weight over the drives tho..

If I can find a sheet of coroplast in a 5 x 7 sheet, I'll make a bed cover.
Or, for 8 bucks I saw a 1/8" thick piece of plywood that I'd need two off to make a bed cover.. I'd reinforce it with aluminum square stock and rubber foam for the bed to tonneau mating surface..

I can tell you guys this..
My usuall section where I'd throw my truck into coasting mode before a stop sign with nobody behind me usually got me down to 35mph by a certain section.. last night I was coasting down in that same area and I was at 40mph in that same section.. this is all from 45mph exactly..

maybe theres something to this? :confused:

actually the snow has stopped here, its back to good old oregon rain... i'm gonna run a few little experements with running tail gate up, down, and gone to see what i come up with

I honestly think the tailgate up or down thing varies.. Not all trucks are designed the same.. So one general rul for a bunch of different variations of truck are too vague and should be taken on a truck by truck basis..

I just put my gate back on and up for the test voyage of these skirts..
reports tonite..

Chris -

Someone can describe a better test than me, but I would do this, with and without the skirts :

1 - Find a hill you can coast down in Neutral that has a 45 MPH speed limit, and won't put you over 50 MPH (so no one can get mad at you for speeding) max on the coast. Maybe this means starting at a lower point down the hill. The hill will need a nice long flat section of road at the bottom.

2 - Start from the same start point each time. Coast down to a rolling stop as many times as it takes to get a reliable average for distance, max MPH, and time. The idea is to show repeatability.

If the skirts work, all three of those variables should be greater than without the skirts.

I think the only problem is finding that hill.

CarloSW2

I know the coast down test has been described before, but I found a reference that goes into detail into limiting error. I think the most valuable thing was that it described how to find the coefficient of rolling resistance, rather than just using an assumption based on weight and manufacturer's tire specs.

Good results on the wheel skirts, but lets get some testing to make sure they aren't just placebos. :)

- LostCause

I have no hills that I can do that with, is there another way?

As soon as someone tells me how to go about testing
for results, I'm definatly down to give it a shot :thumbup:

I was suprised people on my truck forum didn't lynch me for skirting it. LOL
I've actually got the large portion of members trying to beat me.. More MPG to them! :D

If I end up at over the 30.5mpg mark, there mite be something to these..

Chris -

I can't find that hill either, :( .

If you had a ScanGauge, you could do what Peakster did for an Acetone test, a point-to-point test on the highway :

Fuel Economy Test #5: ACETONE REVEALED!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=van5VmJ1yno

In the meantime, here is a compromise version of the same kind of test I was describing :

1 - Find a long flat road you can drive at the 45 MPH or greater speed limit. I think you want to start with at least 45 MPH in order to focus on the effect of aerodynamic drag. The middle of no-where with at least two lanes in each direction is your best bet.

2 - Drive up to the speed limit and pop it in neutral at a specific point along the road. You can use a landmark and/or a pal on the side of the road to help.

3 - Coast down to a rolling stop as many times as it takes to get a reliable average for distance and time. Again, the idea is to show repeatability.

If the skirts work, both of those variables should be greater than without the skirts.

Having another pal in the car with a stopwatch, pad, and paper to help record the numbers would help too.

I don\'t like this version because it introduces human error at the point where you pop it into neutral. For that reason, I would predict that your "coast to stop" positions could be wildly different. The downhill approach lets good ol\' gravity give it the exact same push every time.

CarloSW2