Lookie what I just boughted!
 

http://www.zoombicycles.com/componen...1773cbb350.jpg

So I just bought one of those... I know they're cheap, but hell, if it gets me a few good miles, I'll be happy. It'll be something to tinker with, anyway.

I plan on slapping it on a random bike I pick up, but modding will, of course, be a part of it. Aerodynamics and packaging are the names of the game right now, as well as per-tank range and top speed (most people are claiming up to 35mph. I expect about 50).

And to my own personal satisfaction - This thing is completely illegal to use on public roads in PA! (Vendetta against PA's retarded laws structure...)

I haven't been on here in awhile, so I thought that while I'm doing this, it'll give me an excuse to pop in from time to time, if only to post new pics or whatever.

To start with, the tank that comes in the kit isn't going to be used on the bike. I'm either going to go with an in-frame setup, or just use the tank from my CM185T project (which is now missing a motor, waiting on either e-conversion or the CB125S motor I have.).

I'm likely going to package this as small as possible and make it a forward configuration for now, sort of crotch-rocket-esque. Eventually I hope to use it in a registerable version of a recumbent bike. (Or another similar kit, since this one may be worn out by the time I actually get that built).

Are mods for these Chinese smokers all pretty much universal? I mean things like powerchamber exhausts, etc.

I had a 49cc 2 stroke motor kit on my bicycle when I lived in the Cayman Islands about a dozen years ago. Bike was my only (vehicular) mode of transportation, but the weather was so hot, I was always drenched when I got to work for an afternoon shift.

So I got a kit mailed in from the U.S. and used the motor to get to work dry, then pedal home (and then go swimming in the ocean to cool off).

Oh, and also it was useful to outrun the pack of wild dogs that roamed around before my early morning shift. They liked to chase and kill things.

Hated the noise of it though - it was embarassingly loud! For my early morning shift, I wouldn't start the engine (AM = dog pack avoidance) until after I rode down the road a bit from my apartment.

Seems like the mufflers/baffles that are shipping with them are actually pretty quiet these days. I'm not horribly concerned with noise, because I'll mostly be in the country areas of PA (remember, this thing is technically illegal).

I don't think my goals are too unrealistic for a 66cc (there's no such thing as an 80... it's the difference in US/Chinese measurement standards) motor:

Pedal start (check)
50MPH
At least 90MPG, prefer 100+


The first thing is already taken care of, because any smart user knows that the motors aren't designed to pull you from a dead stop (even though they will...). I'll be pedaling at road speeds, and will modify the throttle so that it DOESN'T idle at all. IOW - If I clutch it, she shuts down. I don't want this thing running all the time, which kinda makes goal #3 easier. Most "Average" users are seeing 100 or so MPG. Maybe my goal should be 150??

Goal #2 is the tough one. It's gonna require some gearing changes. And when I say "50MPH", I don't mean "50MPH on a flat with a tail wind... 3 miles later".

I want to reliably be able to maintain 50 MPH through fair terrain and accelerate to that point without too much effort. In fact, I'd like a <15 second pull up to speed. We'll see how that works out.

The main reason for the speed limit goal is that I'll be on rural roads, where there isn't ever much of a shoulder. Rather than have to keep stopping or slowing down to allow cagers to pass, I feel like I could sacrifice a little bit and at least make a valid attempt to keep the speed up close to standards. Of course, this may require some mild performance mods which will obviously deplete the max MPG figure, so some vigilance will be a requirement in determining proper balance, as well.

If at all possible use a bike with full suspension, front and rear.

If you want a chance at hitting 50mph, get the shifter kit and expansion chamber from:

Sick Bike Parts LLC - Performance parts for your motorized bicycle

Those motors are fun but they are frustrating and need constant maintenance. I had one like that and now have a Dax Titan 50cc four cycle on a cruiser bike. I would like to move my Titan to a stretch limo bike with some upgrades to the drivetrain and a full coroplast fairing.

I find 30mph to be somewhat frightening and usually keep it down to about 20mph. However I am driving in town, not on open roads. Be aware that bicycles tend to shed nuts bolts and parts quite readily when ridden at high speeds with a vibrating motor.

You should be able to do much better than 100mpg. I think the time I measured a tank I got 120mpg (with the Titan four stroke).

Using the Sick shifter kit is important because then your bike can freewheel coast. I don't have that kit and my drivetrain causes a lot of drag, its like having the brakes on if the throttle is not on. With a good freewheel, some pedal assist and EOC I bet I could get 200mpg.

I appreciate your input and concern here.

I used to rebuild bikes when I was a kid, and many of the bikes I worked on were used for hooliganism and stunting, so I'm no stranger to loctite products.

Also, I don't intend to mount the motor using the solid strap mounts alone. I'm going to cut up some old inner-tubes and wrap them around the mount points, to help dampen vibrations a little. From what I've been told, these engines tend to have a "sweet spot" as far as RPM for constant operation. Once I find it, I intend to gear it so that that particular area is where I spend most of the time at.

BTW - 20 MPH on a pedal bike is a good cruising speed when you're not worried about how fast you get there... I'm used to much higher speeds.

And for the biker nuts: Yes, I'll be wearing gear. Full face helmet, Textile jacket with CE back and side armor, elbow protection, and the same jeans and composite boots I always wear.

It might only be a pedal bike, but 50MPH is 50 MPH.

I have a hard time pedaling when wearing two layers of pants and a winter jacket. Thermal regulation is challenging, and involves doffing the jacket after a mile or two, and donning it if the wind picks up or I hit too many red lights.

What you're describing sounds like a very uncomfortable hybrid of motorcycle and bicycle, instead of the usual 30mph pedal-assisted moped.

It always saddens me to see people mounting engines on bikes.

(If it's a two stroke, you deserve to be hung from the highest tree in PA ! )

I'd opt for a full suspension, alloy steel mountain bike with disc brakes and Maxxis Hookworm tires. Forget the department store brands. I can help fix you up with a fairing.

While I'm sure you have a plethora of reasons for having said that, I'm also quite sure you've just made yourself appear ignorant on a public forum for the same.

If you have valid input, I welcome you to the thread. Otherwise, GTFO, buddy.

I think I put it in the original post... I'm gonna opt for whatever I can fix/rebuild/come across next to free.

While I've certainly been out looking for a job that pays something close to worthwhile, I've not actually found one yet, so funding comes from whatever I can scrape together for a project that hasn't already been promised to another one.

It's a bad way to start a project, but I've been managing.

Thanks for the offer, though. I might take you up on it.

Here is my old thread on my motorbicycle. I rode it to work today, its pretty fun, although a nonmotorized bicycle is more practicaler.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...mpg-10201.html

Maybe in Yurup, real life lynchings and two strokes are all but unheard of? I do know that ordinary people actually bicycle to work and around town in Belgium. The drivers, roads, and distances allow it.

Christ, maybe you'll enjoy this link:

Science of Cycling: Aerodynamics: page 1

Says you'll need about 2HP to get to 50mph three minutes later, on a flat road, with no wind. You might need about twice that to meet your goal of reliable and swift 50mph. On a bicycle, I'm good for about a quarter of a horsepower continuously.

Did I comment on the acceleration I'd like to have specifically? I think I was a little unrealistic about how fast I'd like to get to speed, honestly.

3 minutes is probably sufficient for a 50 MPH pull. I'd like to see it a bit lower than that, but again it's all country areas... once I get up to that speed, I don't plan on slowing down much (if at all). Even all the curves out here, I've already tested them on small, low-center, off-road and pitbike-type bikes at 50+, which have similar tires to an MB, and had no issues with staying inside the lines.

Simple two-strokes are not exactly known for their clean fuel combustion.
Having to add 2-stroke oil makes matters even worse.

There's a good reason why you don't find 2-strokes in cars anymore : they don't meet any emission standards.
That you can still find them in an ever-decreasing number of motorcycles, is only because their emission standards are still below those of cars.

So ...

What's the point in getting great mpg if you're burning those gallons in the most highly polluting kind of ICE ?

What's the point in taking an environmentally friendly means of transport like a bicycle, and then turning it into yet another smoky polluter ?


If you really have to add an engine to your bike, make it an electrical one and get yourself hooked up to a provider of green / sustainable electricity.

Are you coming back to the less-than-ideal world at some point?

You really need to check up on things before you go spouting like this, because while you have valid points, they don't really apply when you consider the alternatives.

Firstly - (and you can call me lazy all you want) I wouldn't be riding the bike 10 miles or more to get where I plan on taking it at speeds <10MPH average, so I'd resort to driving my truck, which is even more polluting and gets MUCH less fuel economy. Welcome to the real world. I don't have the hour or more it would take both ways to lose from the work I do on weekends, nor am I willing to lose that hour or more from my personal time.

Second - I bought the motor kit I bought because of cost. It was $140. When you point out a single electric kit that will perform reasonably well, meet my initial goals (or even close to it) and be a complete kit for $140, I'll buy it. Until then, ain't gonna happen. I can't even buy a reasonable controller for that price on most days, let alone batteries, a motor, and a frame strong enough to mount it all reasonably well.

Third - The closest thing to "green" electricity we have out here is wind powered, and I think that's a private grid as yet. The area I live in is a substation of a much larger (PennElec) grid zone. We don't have options, there's ONE electric Co-Op out here, and it's Tri-County. You don't like their hookup, you get your own. And that doesn't mean "call the other electric company". IT means build your own solar array, wind farm, other means, what have you.

So what was the point in ranting when you didn't even consider the details of the situation?

One hundred years ago all motorcycles were motorized bicycles. Belgium and the Netherlands are flatter than north central Pennsylvania. Just advocating a lynching can be a federal offense in North America with serious prison time involved. An exhaust recirculation pipe will go a long way to reduce HC emissions and improve efficiency for a two-stroke engine.
If you are going parts yard tech, look for 4130 CrMo frames and aluminum rims. Caliper brakes can be fitted with the longer mountain bike pads. Braking from speed (1/2 g) with a fairing may be tricky. My experience with inner tubes is they break down when exposed to the elements. Try some neoprene foam or gasket material.

Also make sure your components are rated for the speeds involved. Here's a guy whose frame failed, presumably in fatigue, while offroading down a volcano at 100mph:

YouTube - Extreme Mountain Bike Crash with 170 kph

50mph is not unheard of in competitive cycling, so plenty of bikes are up to the job. Dunno how well WalMart stuff will hold up, though.

Ironically I was looking on Ebay.com to buy something similar for my bike as a alternative transportation, but I found a whole almost new scooter for $300 instead, literally next door. I'm very interested in your project, keep up the good work.

I have a stash of parts at 813 Holdridge

Sweet.

I'm not working at all this week with the person I was doing work for, but I do have an interview this evening (I guess it's an interview) at 1pm to attend. Hopefully it goes well and I'll have two vital components to tinkering - Money and Time.

So far, I think the bike I acquired only needs a chain, and since I'm removing the rear index anyway, I don't have to worry about freeing it. I will be replacing the goofy handlebars on it, though. They're ridiculous.

Pics later this afternoon when I get a chance.

Euromodder:
As far as pollution of two stroke bikes is concerned, you can always buy a low-smoke 2-stroke oil, these new oils are synthetic and on my 50cc scooter you cannot see any smoke from the exhaust and it also doesn`t smell as opposed to those old mineral 2-stroke oils. The other worst polluting is of course noise, but with a decent muffler it can be quieter than a car.

Christ:
Just remember to put on good brakes if you plan on going 50mph on a bicycle ;)

Yeah, I'll replace the rim-brakes. :)

LOL. I'm stupid like that.

This hasn't gone anywhere yet because of the KZ project I'm working on. I only have so much spare time, and I don't see myself being able to use this bike much in the coming months, anyway, so I put it to the wayside for now. When I get the other parts in for the KZ, I might start on this while I'm doing the mockups for the front end of the Kawi, and the seat cowl and rearsets.

I hope to see the project done soon :)

I got as far as figuring out that everything was there, and I don't like the tank.

I also decided that I'm probably going to end up using a different bike than what I have, which is why I haven't even bothered taking pics of it yet.

I did figure out that I don't like the tank at all, though. I'll probably use a "custom" water bottle mounted on the frame so it doesn't look quite so hideous.

I change my mind alot. You'll notice this.

If it's the tank only the problem use the bottle till you figure it out. I think we all can sway in a bit :)

LOL. I wish the tank was the only problem, honestly.

With the kit, it probably is the only problem.

With me, and my life, it's far from the only one. I'm probably the most indecisive person you'll ever talk to. I'm never exactly sure what's going to happen with one project or another until the project starts gaining requirements. For instance, I've been pondering this KZ250 I'm working on for about a week now... and I've just decided that maybe it doesn't like the Cafe bike route, and would like to be a sport-ish bike instead.

Oi... I dunno about me sometimes.

I built one of these three years ago. If I were to do it again, I would get the better quality motor from GruBee. Actually, no, I would find a 4-stroke.

I threw the cheap clutch lever away and got a nice one made for a dirt bike.

I got 115 mpg, 34 mph, and sprayed oil and raw gas all over the roads. My "sweet spot" was around 28 mph. I had to tighten all the bolts and studs every week, including retorquing the cylinder head at least once a month.

You don't need to modify the throttle to make it shut off. On mine, I just wound the idle mixture screw shut tight.

If I build another one, it will definitely have that shifter kit on it. I wouldn't build another one without it.
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/
With direct drive, the engine is screaming at 35 mph. Fuel economy would also go up quite a bit. That plastic wheel chain guide sucks big time.

I messed up the motor on my 4 stroke, I think I overreved it. It is popping and backfiring. I suspect the valves.

You were better off buying a nice bike instead of buying an unreliable two stroke to attach to an unreliable bike. Cycling is meant to be gas-free, motorized bikes were just a step between motorcycles and their awesome predecessor.

If I were you, I'd look for a job first, save up and get a nice bike you wouldn't mind riding to work and the grocery.

Illinois is flat, PA around Troy is not. The unemployment rate is still high in this area. To say cycling is "meant" to be gas free may reflect a particular philosophy but there is little historical evidence to support that position. Many early bicycle builders motorized and modern brands still do, ie Giant and Cannondale. I enjoy my high tech Jamis Aragon but I still keep a Huffy 3spd for speed play in traffic. Appropriate technology is an important part of a sustainable society and we do well to avoid preconceived notions about what is eco-friendly versus eco-chic.

I like non motorized bikes, and I like motorized bikes. I don't think euro should have had his isht jumped on for his 2-stroker comment tho'- it's true, they barf 1/2 the fuel/oil out the exhaust and they sound obnoxious. I have a BikeBug that does that and it pi$$e$ me off. :mad: FOUR stroke all the way baby! :thumbup: Or even electric... but there is that range limitation/anxiety thing for sure, as well as very real cold temp performance reductions.

looks like a fun project... Keep it up to date i would like to see how it turns out. Yes I know many people did it before but... I am not watching their threads i am watching this one. good luck and I hope you find the time soon.

Don't mean to come across as the thought police. The originator of this thread has moved on to a motorcycle project. My experience with a 2-stroke bike motor has been positive partly because I had it checked out by a motorcycle shop. A clean 2-stroke is possible, Aprilia uses a direct injection system to meet emission spec. Tough to beat a good 4-stroke like the Mitsubishi with full emission controls. As soon as NYS passes the electric bike legislation I want to get one and add an ultra capacitor for stop and go travel. I will make sure the thing stops in 30 feet from 30 mph!

Hey grant the last point you made about braking from that speed if you didn't already they make nice disc brake setups for mountain bikes. good luck

I haven't "moved on" perse... I just want to get the Ninja 250 I bought running properly to use as a winter bike. And now, since I've moved into a trailer I purchased (read: headache), and all the repairs/etc that need to be performed, plus working 84+ hours every week (haven't had an official day off in 28 days. I started 33 days ago.) and the lack of availability of internet service in the mobile park I now reside in, means that I have little time for anything, and even less time to talk about it.

At some point, the fuel tank for my Ninja 250 should be arriving. The KZ250 is a "pet" project that isn't going anywhere fast, and this thread will have some updates eventually as well, all in due time. Sorry guys.

PS - Ecofreak - While I value your opinion, I hardly believe you're in a place to tell me where I could have been "better off" doing anything. Please refrain in the future.

Side note - Crist, what makes it illegal (technically) in PA?

In order to make the vehicle road legal, it must be registered. In order to be registered, it must be insured and, thus, titled. Neither can be done without it first being serialized. Since most std pedal bikes don't have an on-road or DOT serial number, that makes it illegal to use a home built motorized bike on public roads in PA, including electrics and assisted effort bikes.

That pretty much sums it up.

You can go through the home-built legalization route. Here, you fill out an app, have the State Patrol inspect it, then hand over your money.

yeah, but if I'm gonna go through all that, I'm gonna make something worth the time.

Out here, you have to have a build sheet, receipts, etc. It's a PITA.

The other option is to plead ignorance when I finally get caught riding it.