Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-11-2014, 10:09 PM   #61 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 126

Black Beast - '02 VW Goff Estate S
Thanks: 27
Thanked 51 Times in 31 Posts
Great post Piwoslaw. Really impressive stats there. I guess the wide range of temperature rises must be due to wind speed?

I just recently installed a 2kw coolant heater with pump. It's fine, but I was thinking of adding a small pad heater to the oil sump pan to get a more even heat distribution, and because with just the coolant heater my coolant temperature drops immediately by 10 degrees C as soon as I start the engine. I'm assuming this is due to the cold oil hitting the oil cooler (oil/coolant heat exchanger).

But 250w or 125w? I can't decide. Which do you think would be better? I was going to go for a conservative 125w pad heater but perhaps if it is being switched on at the same time as the coolant heater for an hour or less, then a 250w heater might be better. What did you find? Do you find that a 125w heater is about right for you?

I also have a diesel - a 1.9 litre VW TDi - but perhaps you are in an area with colder winters?


Last edited by paulgato; 03-13-2014 at 03:42 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 03-11-2014, 10:51 PM   #62 (permalink)
herp derp Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 1,049

Saturn-sold - '99 saturn sc1
Team Saturn
90 day: 28.28 mpg (US)

Yukon - '03 GMC Yukon Denali
90 day: 13.74 mpg (US)
Thanks: 43
Thanked 331 Times in 233 Posts
from the kat's heater catalog
USAGE GUIDE
Engine Oil Pan
2-5 quarts 100 WATTS
5-8 quarts 150 WATTS
8-20 quarts 250 WATTS
20-35 quarts 500 WATTS

im guessing their figures are for their protection, but for my 4qt system i played along and only got the 100w. figure i might, sometime ,want to plug in my car, when im not at home/not on a timer.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 2000mc For This Useful Post:
paulgato (03-13-2014)
Old 03-12-2014, 11:20 AM   #63 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 126

Black Beast - '02 VW Goff Estate S
Thanks: 27
Thanked 51 Times in 31 Posts
Thanks 2000mc. And how do you find the 100w pad heater? Do you find it heats up OK? How long do you have to have it on for to do the job?

I have an onboard battery charger operating overnight anyway so my other option is to have a small (100w?) sump heater and leave that on all night together with the battery charger, but it would use over a kwHr overnight, whereas a 250w heater on for an hour in the morning would use only 0.25kwHr. I don't think there is much point having a pad heater on for more than 4 hours as any heat introduced before that will be gone by morning, but the battery charger needs a full ten hours to do its job, so using a mains timer is tricky unless I have two separate mains supplies into the vehicle, which I don't really want.

Last edited by paulgato; 03-13-2014 at 03:54 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 07:01 PM   #64 (permalink)
herp derp Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 1,049

Saturn-sold - '99 saturn sc1
Team Saturn
90 day: 28.28 mpg (US)

Yukon - '03 GMC Yukon Denali
90 day: 13.74 mpg (US)
Thanks: 43
Thanked 331 Times in 233 Posts
I really couldn't say, I installed my oil pan heater at the same time I installed an oem block heater. Coolant temps pretty much seem to level off around 2hrs at 55-60 degrees F above ambient. I'd say I get about 3/4 the temp change from 1hr
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2014, 01:26 AM   #65 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 126

Black Beast - '02 VW Goff Estate S
Thanks: 27
Thanked 51 Times in 31 Posts
Quote:
I really couldn't say, I installed my oil pan heater at the same time I installed an oem block heater. Coolant temps pretty much seem to level off around 2hrs at 55-60 degrees F above ambient. I'd say I get about 3/4 the temp change from 1hr
OK, so about 30 degrees C temperature rise above ambient. Sounds like you've got about the right amount of heating overall given that you (presumably) have no thermostatic control over it.

You could have a bit more heat, but it's always better to under-specify heating than to over-specify. Thermostats can (and do) fail in the always-on position. If my thermostat fails in the ON position then I've got 1.8kw of heat going on, which is going to start stuff boiling. Probably the only consequent damage would be to the heater element itself, but still... Also, if my pump fails then my 1.8kw heater element will probably burn out within minutes. With your set-up, you're never going to get massive electricity bills and never going to overheat anything or burn anything out, even if you accidentally leave it on for a whole weekend. You might be able to boost the temperature rise you can achieve there by improving the insulation of the engine bay, and by blocking the radiator grille to stop the wind getting in.

But what wattage is your block heater? You've got a 100w sump heater and a ??watt block heater?
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2014, 02:08 AM   #66 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
doviatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Utah
Posts: 388

Grey Goose (Retired) - '89 Geo Metro LSI 4 door hatch back
Last 3: 57.16 mpg (US)

Tweety - '91 Geo Metro Convertible -2 Door convertible LSI
Team Metro
90 day: 43.97 mpg (US)

Shadow - '02 Honda Shadow VT1100
90 day: 43.46 mpg (US)

Sonic - '07 Honda CBR1000RR
90 day: 42.69 mpg (US)

Filmore - '84 Volkswagen Vanagon
90 day: 20.9 mpg (US)
Thanks: 47
Thanked 44 Times in 31 Posts
Won't AC circuit timers solve the "what if..." left connected for an entire month scenario?
Worst case, it is on only the entire time the timer is set for on a daily cycle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2014, 03:26 AM   #67 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 126

Black Beast - '02 VW Goff Estate S
Thanks: 27
Thanked 51 Times in 31 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by doviatt View Post
Won't AC circuit timers solve the "what if..." left connected for an entire month scenario?
Worst case, it is on only the entire time the timer is set for on a daily cycle.
Yes, those timers are useful, but with my 1.8kw coolant heater, if my pump fails the heater element is likely to be toast within minutes, and if the thermostat fails it is likely to be toast within a couple of hours. The company who makes these heaters sell far more 3kw units than 2kw units but I wanted a bit of a margin for error!

I'm not complaining, and I like that my more powerful heater can make a useful 40 degree C temp rise in 20 minutes, but keeping the power of these heaters below the level where thermostats and pumps are necessary is quite smart from the KISS and reliability point of view.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2014, 04:38 AM   #68 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,267

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 273
Thanked 3,569 Times in 2,833 Posts
Dont waste money, time and energy with small wattage heaters.
A larger heater will get the engine warmer, faster and to a higher temperature.
Smaller heaters just slowly waste energy by bleeding heat off into the surrounding environment, never getting the engine up to a more usable temperature.
If you click on my fast warm up ideas link on the last page I updated the idea with actual tests using a 3700w engine heater setup. That heater set up got the engine warmer, faster and used less energy than a single heater element setup.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2014, 08:24 PM   #69 (permalink)
herp derp Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 1,049

Saturn-sold - '99 saturn sc1
Team Saturn
90 day: 28.28 mpg (US)

Yukon - '03 GMC Yukon Denali
90 day: 13.74 mpg (US)
Thanks: 43
Thanked 331 Times in 233 Posts
The block heater from saturn is a radiant element that sets against the block, so I don't think it would be near as efficient as one in coolant. I don't know for sure what the wattage is, but I was thinking I'd heard 500w

I would totally agree with oilpan4, I think 4x the heat for a 1/4 of the time would be far better.

If I ever get around to swapping to a manual steering gear, I'll remove my currently disabled power steering pump, which will allow me a great place to add a circulation heater. I don't think I want to go past about 1800w total though, so I can still use a standard 110 outlet

edit: so most ppl on the saturn forums seem to say 300w block heater. considering that, it doesnt sound as inefficient as i was thinking
edit#2: so yea, looks similar to metrompg's bolt on heater which is also 300w. post15- http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea....html#post7274

Last edited by 2000mc; 03-13-2014 at 11:18 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2014, 05:30 AM   #70 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,267

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 273
Thanked 3,569 Times in 2,833 Posts
Circulating heaters are nice but you dont have to have one.
I used 3700w to heat a V8 diesel and 2 turbo chargers. The 2 turbo chargers are almost as big as some 3 and 4 cylinder engines. If you put a 1000w and standard 600w heater elements in a 4 cylinder engine block I think you would be doing really well. I bet it would warm up faster than my diesel and its coolant circulating 220volt powered setup.

__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2003 Toyota Matrix Block Heater Daox EcoModding Central 25 11-03-2012 09:59 AM
Civic Block Heater Install TomO DIY / How-to 42 04-04-2012 09:24 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com