Mirror delete make window down driving worse?

[2000mc]

*runs out to the garage and removes pesky springs*

[RedDevil]

And the extended decklid did... what?
It is on the car but not on the list.
So either they added it even though it did absolutely nothing, or the list does not compute.
Much as I like to see this kind of data from reputed car companies, it is just a powerpoint slide. It could say anything, I'm afraid.

[freebeard]

.08 at what cost? 50mm is 1.96 inches. I'm at 2 5/8" to the tow hook and 3 1/2 in general, and can only clear about 90% of speed bumps.They'll never get it off the Salt.

Maybe if they raised it an inch that belly pan would gain them something..

[spacemanspif]

Originally Posted by aerohead

I ran my CRX at Bonneville,with,and without side mirrors at just short of 98-mph.It made no measurable difference in top speed.It would make no measurable difference in mpg.
The mirror can contribute so little to overall drag that it would take a very expensive,world-class full-scale wind tunnel to measure the difference,with and without.

Well either way, I am still curious of the effect of mirrors on window down driving. Does it make sense that no mirrors would increase induced drag from the open window? Or would be it be just as unnoticeable as the mirror delete itself?

With lack of instrumentation it is really hard for me to tell if there are any positive effects from the mods I am doing. I think the passenger mirror delete helped as that tank I got 46mpg, the following tank was only 40mpg but I had a lot of not normal driving for the first 100 miles.

Before I took off the passenger mirror I bought a panoramic rear view mirror and I have to praise that little gem, I can see 2 lanes over and have no blind spot at all on the passenger side...it does take a little getting used to, but it surely helps visibility. Even if put the passenger mirror back on, I will still be keeping the panoramic one...

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by spacemanspif

Well either way, I am still curious of the effect of mirrors on window down driving. Does it make sense that no mirrors would increase induced drag from the open window? Or would be it be just as unnoticeable as the mirror delete itself?

With lack of instrumentation it is really hard for me to tell if there are any positive effects from the mods I am doing. I think the passenger mirror delete helped as that tank I got 46mpg, the following tank was only 40mpg but I had a lot of not normal driving for the first 100 miles.

Before I took off the passenger mirror I bought a panoramic rear view mirror and I have to praise that little gem, I can see 2 lanes over and have no blind spot at all on the passenger side...it does take a little getting used to, but it surely helps visibility. Even if put the passenger mirror back on, I will still be keeping the panoramic one...

It's hard to predict the difference it will make.
When GM was doing it's Precept PNGV car they had budgeted 30-counts for all the features drag on the car,which would include the mirrors.
If you took the entire 30 counts off the Saturn it might be tough to see it at the gas pump.We know the drag would be reduced,but it would be really tough to see it through the signal-to-noise ratio of road testing.
Just shooting from the hip I'd say,remove them and you'll see lower drag.Whether or not glass is up or down.
I'm keeping mine for safety reasons.
People around here get their drivers license from a box of Cracker Jacks.You never know what they're likely to do.If they put me in a pickle ( a daily occurrence commuting to jobs) I want to know exactly what my immediate environment for maneuvering is.

[pjbgravely]

Originally Posted by spacemanspif

Before I took off the passenger mirror I bought a panoramic rear view mirror and I have to praise that little gem, I can see 2 lanes over and have no blind spot at all on the passenger side...it does take a little getting used to, but it surely helps visibility. Even if put the passenger mirror back on, I will still be keeping the panoramic one...

Have you experienced backing into a tight garage with the tightness on the passenger side with the panoramic mirror? That is the only use I have for that mirror.

[sheepdog 44]

Metrompg wrote something about mirror deletes. He qouted an article that said a well designed mirror adds 0.012-0.016 cd. That is for BOTH mirrors. I deleted my right side so i conservatively guess im at .244 cd. Remember it removes frontal area as well as lowers your drag coefficient. So .224 X 20sqft - a couple square inches. So yes, only expect a 1-3% increase in mpg, unless your side mirrors are very large.

Yes it's not a lot, but optimizing everything helps. I'm just checking every aero thing off my list very slowly. I have large convex truck mirrors as interior mirrors. The left drivers side is fantastic, far better than the outboard mirror! But the passenger side is "ok."

I will say a grill block helps vastly more than a mirror delete. I see about a 2mph increase on average on certain downhill sections.

[freebeard]

Would these increase or decrease drag, windows up/down? They are certainly better positioned to influence the air over the open window. The notch at the mirror post means air will try to fill in and separate the stagnant bubble behind the mirror face. IMHO the acoustic effect would transfer across the gap better than a pressure gradient.

Have you experienced backing into a tight garage with the tightness on the passenger side with the panoramic mirror? That is the only use I have for that mirror.

I have a 5-panel Wink mirror inside. It gives me 120° vision to the rear without turning my head. 270° front and 120° rear means there's overlap. It's great for situational awareness. I've had it on at least 3 vehicles so far. It's followed me from car to car over the years, along with the Hella H-4 headlights.

The space to the left of it is filled with a compass, but I'd like to add a 2" convex mirror so, like you say, I can see the running board. (Yes, I have running boards.)

The next changes—as budget permits—new seat belts and replace the outside mirror with a $15 peek mirror.

Smaller, 1/2 the distance to my eye, and it moves out of the aerodynamically critical A-pillar area.

When the weather is warm instead of rolling the windows down, I flip the vent windows around so they are scoops up to 25mph and to 90° above that. Works great.

[Jasen]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Would these increase or decrease drag, windows up/down? They are certainly better positioned to influence the air over the open window. The notch at the mirror post means air will try to fill in and separate the stagnant bubble behind the mirror face. IMHO the acoustic effect would transfer across the gap better than a pressure gradient.

I had the same notion, but was thinking this style...

[spacemanspif]

So far, the only time I have said "darn, I wish I had my passenger mirror" is when I was parking next to a curb in a parallel type fashion (not hard-core city parallel parking). I park next to a curb every day but its just a pull up park job so it doesn't need any mirror help. If I routinely had to back the car into tight spaces or needed it to avoid A-holes I would have never deleted the mirror. But since my morning commute is: pull away from the curb, drive the right lane of the highway and park in a grass field I don't really need it too much.

I had weather tech, in-channel, rain guards on the car a while ago, they seemed to increase wind noise with the windows up, but since they are easy to pop in and out it might be worth it to put them in during the warm months and remove them in the winter when the windows stay up. I've attached a pic of what the rain guards look like on the car.