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Old 02-19-2010, 07:09 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cd View Post
I almost laughed out loud when I read Honda's excuse for copying the shape of the Prius ( They stated that they had to shape the Insight like the Prius to get the same aerodynamics out of the car )
Not as funny as it first sounds though.
When you get to a certain point all designs begin to look similar to achieve the same end result.

Hence the Prius looks like the Ford Econetic which looks like the Honda which looks like the...well you see the point.

ALL submarines look similar for the same reason.
All supersonic passenger aircraft look like Concorde... and so on.

I have to agree though the Lexus shape was very slippery despite the conservative external looks.

By the way an interesting study done of the Alfa Sud and the Citroen GS (two very similar cars in engine layout , packaging and general overall looks) found the Citroen to be way ahead in the aero dept... all down to details.

Pete.

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Old 02-19-2010, 08:32 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter7307 View Post
Not as funny as it first sounds though.
When you get to a certain point all designs begin to look similar to achieve the same end result.

Hence the Prius looks like the Ford Econetic which looks like the Honda which looks like the...well you see the point.

ALL submarines look similar for the same reason.
All supersonic passenger aircraft look like Concorde... and so on.

I have to agree though the Lexus shape was very slippery despite the conservative external looks.

By the way an interesting study done of the Alfa Sud and the Citroen GS (two very similar cars in engine layout , packaging and general overall looks) found the Citroen to be way ahead in the aero dept... all down to details.

Pete.
A Lexus LS-430 looks nothing like a Prius, or the first generation Insight, yet the Lexus matches both cars Cd.

The point I was bringing up is that even 'normal' looking cars can be slippery if the auto manufacturers tried to make them that way.

BTW If you notice the shape of the Lexus, it is very similar to that of a 1995 Toyota Camry. The Camry had a Cd of .32 though.
It's a shame that Toyota/Lexus couldn't have done more detail optimization on the Camry. ( Can't have the pony outrun the horse though can you ? )

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Old 02-20-2010, 04:12 AM   #53 (permalink)
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RE the fake Cd, is anyone a fan of Deep Space 9? Remember the Romulan who said "It's a FAAAKE!"???
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:13 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cd View Post
A Lexus LS-430 looks nothing like a Prius, or the first generation Insight, yet the Lexus matches both cars Cd.

The point I was bringing up is that even 'normal' looking cars can be slippery if the auto manufacturers tried to make them that way.

BTW If you notice the shape of the Lexus, it is very similar to that of a 1995 Toyota Camry. The Camry had a Cd of .32 though.
It's a shame that Toyota/Lexus couldn't have done more detail optimization on the Camry. ( Can't have the pony outrun the horse though can you ? )

How do we even know the Lexus really has such a low Cd?
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:41 AM   #55 (permalink)
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ABG photo gallery of the new Merc: Autoblog
Looks like they made a kind of small splitter on the lower front of the front bumber?
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Old 02-20-2010, 03:52 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Cd 0.15 & Marque identity

I believe Hucho commented in 1986,that down to around Cd 0.15,automakers would still have a bit of styling latitude for brand identity.
Below that,all solutions would evolve into a common solution as we see in fuselage,canoe,subs,etc.
You can fool most of the people most of the time,but you can fool the atmosphere none of the time.
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Old 02-21-2010, 06:03 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunarhighway View Post

there might be some telelens distortion in this picture, but you can see it's got a pretty narrow rear for such a big car. something appears a bit odd from this angle...

while in a more human perspecive, and no doubt heavily photoshopped official view it looks like this
Just an observation, but the white car is the hatchback model and the grey car in the brochure shot is the sedan. Easy way to tell: the hatch has a rear wiper, the sedan doesn't. This would explain why they look oddly different, yet very, very similar. The hatch and sedan are very hard to tell apart at a quick glance.

Here are the two side by side:
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:10 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Mercedes-Benz E-Class Cabriolet 2011

http://www.netcarshow.com/mercedes-b...briolet/13.htm

Last edited by IRONICK; 03-08-2010 at 07:01 AM..
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:44 AM   #59 (permalink)
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@AJI

the wiper is actually an option... so you could have a hatch without one... making it even harder to tell them appart...

it might be a trick to list a lower Cd for the base model without the whiper,
but on the other hand, loads of people here would take off that thing anyway and because the similarity with the sedan i don't think you really need it (the rear window will receive less dirt deposit etc vs a wagon type hatchback) so if you want a clean look rather than a clean window it's nice to have that choise
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Old 03-09-2010, 02:45 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Are you sure? It's the case with virtually all saloons and hatches of the same car - the hatchback has a wiper, the saloon doesn't. It's very, very rare that you get a saloon with a wiper or a hatchback without.

The rear wiper is certainly standard on the hatchback in the UK and unavailable on the saloon. I'd find it strange if the wiper is an option over there, though I'm aware that Euro-market cars often have very low specification models at the bottom of the range - in contrast, UK buyers like a lot of kit even on the basic models.

It's logical really - a rear wiper is always mounted on the metal bootlid on a hatchback. You are unable to do this with a saloon, because that metal section opens.

Wiper or no wiper though, I can't see the Insignia saloon and hatch having too different a figure for the Cd. They have a very similar profile and are basically identical right up to the base of the rear window.

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