Nissan Leaf... the well thought out Volt killer
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVwtwhvmK0I

Much attention to detail in all aspects of design including instrumentation and aerodynamics. I want one

Hardly a Volt-killer. Aside from the fact that there's enough of a market out there for both, the Volt would appeal to people who want to drive more than 100 miles or so.

Now if Nissan really wanted to make a Volt-killer, they'd cut the size of the Leaf's battery in half, and add a small APU-type generator.

If you're a person who regularly drives over 100mi, the Volt is still the wrong car. The charge sustaining MPG is pretty unimpressive, so a Prius would be a better choice.

I doubt people with $41k to spend on a car are single-car families anyway, so most of them could get away with a Leaf.

First accessory you will see for the Leaf is a tow behind APU. Then you can hook it up when you need it, if you want to own only one car.

Beats dragging one around when you don't need it.

regards
Mech

Its yet another Pig-in-a-poke... Seems the Chevy Volt is designed for one purpose and one purpose only... So that GM can point to it complete and utter failure and say:

"look... we built it but Americans don't want EVs"

Such a shame... they could have updated the EV1 and been the market leader

I think the Coda electric car is going to do much better in the real world, leaf has a 65-100 mile real world range and the Coda has a 85-120 mile real world range, like hybrids it has a better city or rush our traffic range and the lower range is high speed highway driving.
I'm a little disappointed that there isn't much news about the WheeGo Whip Life as well.

I only drive over 100 miles per day a few times a year and it's often with other people and we normally take mine because it gets the best mileage... part of why I own the gas car I do, I'd like to own a higher speed electric car but as it is my electric car that tops out at 40mph works for most vehicle needs I have.

I don't think GM is all that far off with the Volt theory, i.e. that range anxiety is keeping hoards of potential "EV" customers out of pure EVs; and also that the typical customer is not going to fool around with tow-behind APUs and whatnot, so the solution has to be plug-n-play even if that means there is no choice but to add stuff that dilutes the pure EV functionality.

...anybody investing in EverReady or Coppertop battery companies?

I'm surprised they didn't use the airconditioner on reverse for heating, seems like an obvious way to reduce power consumption.

Now I just need to win the lottery and wait for it to go on sale in New Zealand. :)

First Full Range Test of Nissan LEAF Yields 116.1 Miles | PluginCars.com

Video: Nissan Leaf's Eco-mode boosts range up to 10% — Autoblog Green

What is going to kill their range in the winter is not the heater but the lack of battery heating, you come out ahead even if you use energy from the batteries to heat the batteries so they are closer to their ideal working temperature, ideally you would have a battery heater that draws power from the charging station but when that is not an option you are going to get more range with batteries warmed using energy from that same pack then trying to drive on a cold set of batteries.
If you just run the heater, lights, radio, wipers and all that other stuff you will cut a few miles off your range but most people will never notice even a 1,000 watt load of an electric heater in a car who's drive motor is pulling 10,000 to 20,000 watts or more at times.
Nissan is one of the few car makers that does not believe in battery thermal management other then a single fan inside the sealed battery box.

chevy volt killer = time + GM

given the choice, Ampera(EU Volt) - Prius - Leaf. I'd go leaf

The Leaf's battery is warmed when charging, and apparently it is well enough insulated to keep most of it's capacity for up to 3 days in sub zero temperatures.

BTW, the DOD allowed on the Leaf is 95% = 22.8kWh. They must have a very stable and robust chemistry and construction. This is at least 2.5X more usable capacity than the Volt; while the total capacity difference is 1.5X.

Wow, 95% is deeper than I'd want to go everyday. Is that in reduced performance mode, long after distance-to-empty has hit zero?

Apparently the volt never charges above 80% or discharges below 20%, from what I was told at one of the Electric Auto Association meetings is that this can extend the life of the battery by many years as most of the damaged that shortens the life is done at the top and bottom of the charge in a lithium battery, you don't get as much out of it short term but long term you win.

Here's an interesting discussion -- Nissan may be sandbagging a bit on the overall capacity of their pack:

My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Battery Design and Engineering Issues

Yet another reason to make it an APU-type hybrid. When it's cold, you fire up the APU and use the heat from that to warm the cabin & battery.

0-60 in 7 seconds flat with 2 on board is pretty damn impressive.

( regarding range anxiety )

Whatever happened to the idea of having charging stations installed at Nissan dealerships ?
Almost every town in America has a Nissan dealership nearby.

It mocks the "sporty" CR-Z's performance specs.

You haven't been to the upper Midwest then. We have zero foreign car dealerships in town and that is partly why there is not much here besides 4x4s and Cadillacs. The nearest foreign dealership is 60 miles away, and it's not Nissan. I think the nearest Nissan dealership is 90 miles.

Maybe, but the difference in usable capacity comes from the Volt being a PHEV and having to live up to CA's 150k/10 year hybrid warranty and the federal 100k/10 year hybrid warranty. Nissan doesn't have to do that so they can allow for usable capacity. The Leaf may or may not have better chemistry.

That really depends on the battery chemistry... Some batteries won't see much of a drop in usable capacity even below freezing. Others will. Depending on the internal resistance it also may not be a problem because if it's high enough use alone will provide enough heat to bring the pack temperatures up above freezing.

Frank -

Yeah, I'd never consider a Leaf because of range anxiety, and I have a "real" infrastructure in Los Angeles. At least at the dealership it would take only 30 minutes with the fast charger, which could be a coffee/wifi moment :

2011 Nissan LEAF: Charging Capabilities Could Make Range Limitless - All Cars Electric
I wonder how much the juice would cost. And is Nissan going to invest in a fast-charger at all their dealerships? This dealership option is "feasible" under the slow roll-out plan :

Kent couple to be among first to purchase new Nissan Leaf electric car
CarloSW2

Hello -

Partially answering my own question :

Don't Blink In Disbelief As BP Offers Electric Car Refilling - All Cars Electric
http://images.thecarconnection.com/s...00230593_s.jpg
CarloSW2

Re: cold: my electric bicycle has REALLY slowed down in speed, accel, and range now with 40-60 deg temps. :mad:

And thats why we call them fly over states.

Sorry, but it seems like you need to brush up on the difference between town and city. Most towns don't have auto dealerships of any kind.

Then of course in this part of the country, it's not at all difficult to find places where you can go 100 miles or more between towns of any sort, and further between ones big enough to have a gas station :-)

Hurray for that! :thumbup:

You've been sourcing the same batteries for your EV bike that the Leaf uses? ;)

I like this feature.
http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblo...ive-18-630.jpg

That is a really nifty breakdown. No more guesswork.

A few interesting things from that picture: regen isn't as strong as I'd hoped for a car with such a large battery. The Insight's regen is puny, at just shy of 10kW. This car is twice as heavy, has 30 times the battery capacity, and apparently only three times as much regen. :(

Also, at idle, the Leaf looks like it's using 200W in this photo. That's about the same as the Insight.

From this article:

First Full Range Test of Nissan LEAF Yields 116.1 Miles | PluginCars.com

From this article:

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/10/22...-drive-second/

Just convinced me that I'm never going to buy a Leaf. Machines should not speak, and dashboard displays should not have prompts that need to be responded to.

So you've already broken your gauges and idiot lights so they don't have prompts that need to be responded to?

I am much more impressed with the Leaf than the Volt. Once again the Japanese beat us at our own game.

After the California november elections I can see many Amsterdam style "Coffee" shops opening offering deals on 26 minute charging stations while you "wait".

Yeah! Lets all go back to living in caves, wearing animal skins and hunting with sticks :thumbup:

I want a modern day Model T, and leave all that techhy gook at home (except for a good EFI system).

I'm kind of on Frank's side of the fence on this one.

Robert, I guess the secret is to accelerate at the same energy consumption rate that you can achieve with max regeneration.

Maybe I'll get a chance to drive one. A good friend is the head of a local Nissan dealer and we have bought several cars from him in the last few years.

It would be interesting to see what the range would be around here with some conservative driving techniques, and my garage never gets very cold in the winter.

They will probably be in the salvage auctions in the next few months. It would be really neat to get one of the batteries for an electric car conversion ;), or just rebuild the car if it is nailed in the but like my VX.

regards
Mech

A modern day Model T: a 1995 Geo Metro with power nothing, one side mirror, and a little bit of crash safety. Or you could get a Nissan Versa, which can be ordered without even a radio.

Mechanically, it doesn't get much simpler than the Leaf. It has an air-cooled battery, one motor, no transmission, and no clutch. So what if it has a fancy fuel gauge and a GPS? It's still one of the simplest cars out there.