OK Bottom line, what real MPG can you get??

[racprops]

OK using just aerodynamics how much MPG can you get with a:

Say 2003 Ford Crown Vic,

A 1995/2005 Ford/Chevy full size Van.

Or any car, how much MPG with just adding aerodynamics can you get, in this case, I saw a write up showing how much each of these things gave:

as in removing side mirrors,

windshield wipers,

door handles,

rain gutters,

roof racks,

then adding under belly pan,

rear wheel fender skirts,

if possible front fender skirts if not then large disk like wheel covers,

and lastly Boat Tails.

I remember all that was only worth around a gain of 5MPG.

Rich

[freebeard]

Say 2003 Ford Crown Vic ....rain gutters,

Zero. They have internal rain gutters. Start here:

ecomodder.com: Aerocivic - how to drop your Cd from 0.31 to 0.17

Halve the Cd and gain 40 MPG.

[oil pan 4]

In our hybrid hyundai sonata get 36mpg at 80mph with no cross wind. Had a 30 to 40 mph head wind going home from okc and it was getting 28mpg.

[racprops]

Problem is he says" I first learned to drive during the 1970's oil embargo and have been perfecting my hypermiling tenchniques ever since. My car is a 92 Civic CX, which I bought new, and was giving me low 60's to low 50's before I started aero modding it.

I will refire you to: https://ecomodder.com/forum/em-fuel-...p?vehicleid=29

For the gas mileage he is getting.

OK IT SEEMS like he improved it from 15 to 40MPG...so he has done more in the range than I have seen before.

BUT he is using hypermiling tenchniques, so I consider the improvement is the areo HELPS the hypermiling tenchniques by allowing longer coasting.

My problem is a areo, hypermiling tenchniques, a lean burn Engine, and I bet a few other MPG tricks.

So it does not answer my main question: With Aerodynamics alone in a normally driven car with no hypermiling tenchniques or any other MPG Tricks what will you get??

I want to take long road trips and do NOT want to use hypermiling tenchniques, I want to just set cruse control and go.

Rich

[M_a_t_t]

Originally Posted by racprops

A 1995/2005 Ford/Chevy full size Van.

Or any car,

I remember all that was only worth around a gain of 5MPG.

I got 18 city and ~21.5 highway on my 95 Astro (with the v6 still). My only mods were wheel discs, partial grille block, and an e-fan swap. EPA 14 city 15 mixed and 17 highway. Although I've gotten 20 on 2 fillups with the carb'd v8. I think mostly because of the 'manu-matic' setup I have going on it. (If you look at my fuel log and question the 7 and 8 mpg gallon fills I had almost exclusively been pulling a car trailer around the yard).

For my car (4 cyl auto), my best was 45 MPG consistently (on 55mph roads). Boat tail, grill block, airdam, front belly pan (just engine bay), mirror deletes, weight reduction. I think that's it. Now I've got motorcycle mirrors, grille block, separation edges and weight reduction. I get 33-36 depending on time of year. I didn't test any of the first mods so I don't actually know what was working and what wasn't so interpret that how you want. But almost 10 mpg isn't bad. It's really about how many miles you drive if it's worth it.

My eco-techniques are basic since both are automatics. Just don't rush to a stop light and minimize brake usage when in traffic (keep space, engine brake, etc.)

[racprops]

Gentlemen:


Thanks for your replies: Here is my results in stock cars,

Back when I was testing a 2000 Mercury Grans Marques and tiring MPG Improvement devices I found the following: Before I did any changes.


At 65MPH and a1750 RPMs this car was able to get 27 to 30MPG. On cruse control.

This was a stock 2000 200HP 4.6 Non- IP intake running stock wheels and tires and a 3.27 Rear end.

I was able to get 35MPG and 65MPH and 1750RPMs by Leaning it out to its best reading at 16.4A/F ratios.

Later on a road trip to Riverside CA rom Phoenix AZ I drove at 85MPG to the CA border (just short of Blyth CA) where I filled up. Apox 145Miles and I was getting 24 MPG. Once in CA with its speed limit of 70 MPH rather than the AZ limit of 75MPH I drove slower and ran 75/80 from Blyth to Riverside which is about 163 miles when I again filled up and recorded 25/26 MPG.

Last year I made a to Lake Havasu to buy a pair of transmissions in my 03 Crown Vic P71/Mercury clone. She drove and rode great and her passing power on the old two lane road was great.

MPG were not bad was running 80/85 on I 10, then 65/75 on the old two lane highway. Got gas at Quartzite to check and read around 21/22MPG then refilled at Quartzite on return and read 22/23.

This was a stock 03 P71 250HP IP intake 4.6 running stock wheels and tires and a 3.27 Rear end.


Even with a 4L80e and a US Gear overdrive in the trunk on the return trip. I could hardly feel the extra weight.

These two transmissions are for my 93 G20 Van. I am making the Van into a 5 speed double overdrive system.

It is my theory that with a V8s like the 4.6 and a 383 I can drop the RPMs down to 1600 to 1800RPMs and get very good MPG.

Rich

Picture of the 2000 Mercury when it was rigged for testing.

[Piotrsko]

What would you do if you had only 1 vehicle?

Road choice might flavor your data. Us95 has issues with RVs, slow zones, curves and washouts/canyons. I preferred the AZ side except for the cities but until I got the Golf, straight roads were preferred.

You can do a simultaneous variable equation to pick the appropriate vehicle for the anticipated conditions, OR pick one and drive it at some optimum condition because the best option is to not go. Somebody here (Crazy Charlie?) had a handle that said infinite mileage is at 0 mph

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by racprops

OK using just aerodynamics how much MPG can you get with a:

Say 2003 Ford Crown Vic,

A 1995/2005 Ford/Chevy full size Van.

Or any car, how much MPG with just adding aerodynamics can you get, in this case, I saw a write up showing how much each of these things gave:

as in removing side mirrors,

windshield wipers,

door handles,

rain gutters,

roof racks,

then adding under belly pan,

rear wheel fender skirts,

if possible front fender skirts if not then large disk like wheel covers,

and lastly Boat Tails.

I remember all that was only worth around a gain of 5MPG.

Rich

Spirit went from 26.4 mpg @ 65-mph, to 39.9 mpg on three different road trips.
Toyota published Cd 0.44 for the truck.
At DARKO, in 2014, she measured Cd 0.2675.
At A2 Wind Tunnel, it is likely that Cd 0.2440 would have been registered.
With the full suite of modifications, as tested by 2017, as a BEV, Spirit, at A2 Wind Tunnel, might exhibit a Cd as low as 0.168.
OEM top speed was 96-mph.
At Bonneville, SPIRIT ran 105-mph in the mile ( not a top speed ).
In 2008, SPIRIT trailed a Homeland Security Chevy Tahoe, @ 108-mph, on the interstate in Arizona ( not a top speed ).
One 'calculator' for an SCTA Bonneville racing team predicted a 128-mph top speed for Spirit.
Just for changing the shape.
We definitely ought to take vehicles on a case-specific basis.

[racprops]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

What would you do if you had only 1 vehicle?

Road choice might flavor your data. Us95 has issues with RVs, slow zones, curves and washouts/canyons. I preferred the AZ side except for the cities but until I got the Golf, straight roads were preferred.

You can do a simultaneous variable equation to pick the appropriate vehicle for the anticipated conditions, OR pick one and drive it at some optimum condition because the best option is to not go. Somebody here (Crazy Charlie?) had a handle that said infinite mileage is at 0 mph

LOL even then at zero driving there is volatile components evaporate easily, a large amount of vapor is quickly generated from the gasoline surface....

Here is my current plans: For the Best MPG in what we currently own:

A 2000 Toyota Camry, gets 25/30 City mixed, highway unknown but feel 30+ even close to 40 possible. I will not mess with it no way no how.

I am fixing up a 03 Ford Explorer with the 4.6 V8 and 5r55 5 speed auto, a fact reported by data on this truck is that ITS 4.6 makes 240FtPDs of torque at 1500RPMs. I believe it too can pull the truck at 1600RPMs and give good MPG.

Currently my best guess is 25MPG at 50MPH.

My plans are to add a second overdrive, a old Borg-Warner overdrive removed from a 1950s 3 speed with OD.

I believe with this I will be able to cruse on flat highways at 75/85MPHs and get that 25MPG.

I am also lowering it by 2.5 inches in the rear and 2 inches in the fron by lowering springs by Bell Tech.

I also plan on adding ground effects to lower its drag and the effects of passing Big Rigs and cross winds.

I also will find away to lean it out on cruising, which has been shown to take the 85/90 Camaros from 20/25 TO 30/35MPG ALONE!!!

This SUV will be out local runner and our Day Tripper (Its name) for small trips which we plan on returning to sleep in our own beds.


I am building a SBC 383 with a veritable cam (thanks to RHoads Lifters) as a LOW 2000 Torque peek engine, with a 85/90 Camaro TPI intake running that same lean burn fuel ratios.

For my Star Craft Custom 93 Chevy G20 full size van.

In this I will be running a 4L80e with a US Gears Dual Range Overdrive, and here too the plan and numbers show I can run this G20 at 1700RPMs at 80MPH, here too I will pull out all the stops, lean burn ETC. and I hope for 20 to 30MPG flat highway and no winds.

This rig has a bed room and will be out Overnighter.

Lastly I will be restoring a 68 VW Bug, mainly for its total lack of everything and it main long life and ease of repair and nearly lack of the need of any repairs.

I do not think these do all that well MPG I have only seen 25 to 30MPG on record.

It is a 1600Dual Port with a good Weber progressive two barrel feeding it and running a Super Bettle Trans-axle for its taller gear rear end.

Has anyone done any MPG work on one of these??

Rich

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by racprops

LOL even then at zero driving there is volatile components evaporate easily, a large amount of vapor is quickly generated from the gasoline surface....

Here is my current plans: For the Best MPG in what we currently own:

A 2000 Toyota Camry, gets 25/30 City mixed, highway unknown but feel 30+ even close to 40 possible. I will not mess with it no way no how.

I am fixing up a 03 Ford Explorer with the 4.6 V8 and 5r55 5 speed auto, a fact reported by data on this truck is that ITS 4.6 makes 240FtPDs of torque at 1500RPMs. I believe it too can pull the truck at 1600RPMs and give good MPG.

Currently my best guess is 25MPG at 50MPH.

My plans are to add a second overdrive, a old Borg-Warner overdrive removed from a 1950s 3 speed with OD.

I believe with this I will be able to cruse on flat highways at 75/85MPHs and get that 25MPG.

I am also lowering it by 2.5 inches in the rear and 2 inches in the fron by lowering springs by Bell Tech.

I also plan on adding ground effects to lower its drag and the effects of passing Big Rigs and cross winds.

I also will find away to lean it out on cruising, which has been shown to take the 85/90 Camaros from 20/25 TO 30/35MPG ALONE!!!

This SUV will be out local runner and our Day Tripper (Its name) for small trips which we plan on returning to sleep in our own beds.


I am building a SBC 383 with a veritable cam (thanks to RHoads Lifters) as a LOW 2000 Torque peek engine, with a 85/90 Camaro TPI intake running that same lean burn fuel ratios.

For my Star Craft Custom 93 Chevy G20 full size van.

In this I will be running a 4L80e with a US Gears Dual Range Overdrive, and here too the plan and numbers show I can run this G20 at 1700RPMs at 80MPH, here too I will pull out all the stops, lean burn ETC. and I hope for 20 to 30MPG flat highway and no winds.

This rig has a bed room and will be out Overnighter.

Lastly I will be restoring a 68 VW Bug, mainly for its total lack of everything and it main long life and ease of repair and nearly lack of the need of any repairs.

I do not think these do all that well MPG I have only seen 25 to 30MPG on record.

It is a 1600Dual Port with a good Weber progressive two barrel feeding it and running a Super Bettle Trans-axle for its taller gear rear end.

Has anyone done any MPG work on one of these??

Rich

1) Consider that the billions Ford spent on EcoBoost adds 0.5-mpg on the highway.
2) The highest dividends you'll ever experience will come from load reduction, and aero is your major source of road load power requirement.
3) The experts will recommend that you cut drag, then re-gear to allow the engine operate within the same load 'island' of its BSFC map. Otherwise you can lose up to 70% of your streamlining potential.
4) Knowing the Cd and frontal area of the Ford and GM van is mandatory.
5) The Beetle's a real dog. My Air Force roommate had a '68 and we never saw north of 28-mpg at 55-mph, whereas my 40-horse Karmann Ghia consistently returned 41-mpg at 70-mph.
6) LRR tires ought to be on the mod list.