Paul and Sabrina's Cheap 3 Phase Inverter (AC Controller) with Field Oriented Control

[thingstodo]

Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes

I'm heading up to washington/oregon for work until the 3rd, so I won't be horribly useful until then, but I might be able to do some stuff.

I won't be that far along for a while ... and I'll be bugging you for pointers while I hook things up.

I am planning to video what I am doing, in case it is interesting for anyone. No editing since that takes more time than actually DOING the work, but the video will be available for me to work on later. I think manuals are great and are needed, but a bit of video helps you to see EXACTLY where things go and how they hook up.

Oh! We just got a wrecked Nissan Leaf that was only $2900 at an auction (hurray for the line of credit haha).

It turns out that basically it was just the side panel that was damaged, and a cheap blinker. So, they totalled it out, and it is costing us around $200 to totally repair it to almost like new. Crazy insurance people!

Great catch! I would love to get a couple of wrecks and play with the CANbus codes, figure out which connectors are required, etc. The Leaf is not popular where I am (Saskatoon, Canada) .. no wrecks. I would need to drive 8 hours away to look at a used one!

I would like to stick the controller in there, but it's a veritable nanny state. I don't want to brick the car with error codes. Even the steering wheel is electronic. Does anybody know if I could just take the stock controller out, and stick mine in, and then disable some stuff, and drive around, or will that mess up other systems like the steering?

I don't have any first hand experience. I have read that the motor controller .. or perhaps it is some supervisory ECU? .. checks the BMS before enabling (don't drive away with the car plugged in).

EVTV has done a lot of work reverse engineering the Tesla power train.

I'd like to do the same with the Leaf ... but first I need to source a Leaf.

EVTV built some tools - a CANbus interface that can log the codes, some PC software (linux, mac, or windows) that will decode the data, export to csv files, play back certain codes or a file of them so see what they do to the car.

It seems like a great puzzle to sort through. Jack Rickard, at EVTV, believes that home-built EV's are going to be using parts of EV wrecks for years to come. They are cheap and plentiful. Many times, they are just fine when the car has been written off. I agree .. but first we have to figure out what codes to send to them, and how often, to make them do their thing.

Are you interested in investigating this type of stuff? I think it would involve:
- lots of CANbus captures. Do one simple thing, log the data, then shut everything down, start a new capture, and do one other simple thing.
- lots of CANbus tinkering. Disconnect the ECU, play back the CANbus files, and remove the message types until something stops working.

The CANbus logging for the Tesla was done with the EVTV GEVCU since it was such high badndwidth. Not sure if a less expensive CANbus shield could be used to capture and play back data on the Leaf.

As usual ... I wrote a book!

[thingstodo]

Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes

I would like to stick the controller in there, but it's a veritable nanny state. I don't want to brick the car with error codes. Even the steering wheel is electronic. Does anybody know if I could just take the stock controller out, and stick mine in, and then disable some stuff, and drive around, or will that mess up other systems like the steering?

Sorry about that - I got carried away and did not attempt to answer your question!

The CANbus devices talk to each other as well as to the ECU. The data is published to the bus and any other device that is interested can get that data, and respond to the data. The CANbus message arbitration is handled in hardware, based on the address of the device. Lower is more important. The devices monitor the bus and verify that what they 'sent' is what is on the bus. Since the address is first, and active low is 0, 0 trumps 1. So the lowest address wins. If a device sends a 1 and reads back a 0, it stops sending and waits for the message to end before retrying.

So the steering, Anti-lock brakes, radiator fan, dash gauges, etc should all function. I think you would need to figure out which codes are sent by the ECU to tell the controller to enable, what speed to go, max current, etc. in order to use your controller in the Leaf. That is one of the things I want to figure out. There is some feedback as well, from the controller, the actual current to the motor, bus voltage, ... I'm sure there are others.

I think this will be a challenge but well worth it. I'd like to see your controller be able to replace the stock controller in any AC vehicle system. Sooner or later the OEM parts go obsolete and I expect these drivetrains to last for many, many years. The controller, in my opinion, is one of those things that will wear out ... capacitors dry out ... connectors have contamination and short out ... that sort of thing.

Was that message a bit more focused?

[MPaulHolmes]

Yes I'm definitely interested in figuring out the CAN codes. I'm sure I'll need help, but I could use the AC board to capture some can data, and then stream it over serial. I've got CAN working, and have tested it on a BMS I did a couple years ago based on Fran Sabolich's suggestions. I used it to send 48 battery voltages over CAN to a charger, and it worked great. The nice thing about it was, you could just blast your messages willy nilly, not caring what other CAN nodes were doing, and the people (charger) who were supposed to get the message just got the message, and the people (other battery groups) who were supposed to ignore it, ignored it!

So, if I added a CAN node to the group, I could just have a mask that says I should receive everything, and I just sit back and listen? And I should leave the spot on the board for the 120Ohm resistor unpopulated, because those 120Ohm resistors are probably somewhere else in the car already (between CANH and CANL)?

[freebeard]

It seems like a great puzzle to sort through. Jack Rickard, at EVTV, believes that home-built EV's are going to be using parts of EV wrecks for years to come. They are cheap and plentiful. Many times, they are just fine when the car has been written off.

Like a whole Leaf for $2900? I stopped by the Toyota dealer and talked to this saleskid who di'nt no nuthin' about cars, but he said the RAV4 and Highlander have the newer twin motor/software differential rear MGR.

[MPaulHolmes]

Yes a whole leaf! Except I ordered a replacement front right metal panel thing for $60 (plus free shipping). And there are the full 12 bars of capacity for the battery, so I think it must have been replaced with a new battery at some point. It is a salvage title, so I don't know how to make it legal to drive. Hopefully it's not a hard process. There's nothing wrong with the car. I've already driven it around. It feels very expensive. Our usual cars are in the $1000 range.

[HaroldinCR]

WOW, what a thread. I finally got through all 306 pages, reading 5-10 pages at a time, until my old eyes crossed. I know nothing about electronics, but, can hold my own with mechanicals. I was hoping the topics would drift just a little bit further off course, and get some discussion going about programming a switched reluctance induction motor, in a lower voltage scenario.

I am of the "jungle with a hand drill" crowd, as Paul said, but, have a few more tools, machines. Down here, in the jungles of Costa Rica, there are hundreds of motorcycles of the 125cc-150cc range. Gasoline hovers around $6.00/gallon. My goal is to produce electric conversions for the locals.

I have built a homemade moto using a hub motor and Chevy Volt 83V battery. Hub motors are too low KV to climb hills very well. Controllers take a beating.

My plan, if ANYONE would be interested, is to try to get a controller working for the E-assist alternator, which can put out over 20 HP at 55v and expected 30+ HP at 72V. I have been in contact with a guy in Spain that has verified these figures. He also wanted to build a controller and I tried to get Lebowski to see about recoding his chip, but, like Paul, he is very busy. These motors are relatively inexpensive for the HP potential.

I know a couple of the posters here also are members of other forums and are very well educated with home built controllers.

If anyone would be interested in working on this, I will gladly start a new thread and supply a motor in the states for whoever would need one to figure out the code.

I also have a step grandson here, who is crazy interested in electronics and no one knows how to build OR repair controllers. I have bought him a started list of stuff so he can get into the electronics and his sister is working on getting into electronics engineering, so, this could be a great future for these two.

Any takers on trying to do this, hopefully ??

Thanks and a great big thanks for all the active members-testers in this thread, especially Paul, things to do and eclipse.

Harold in CR

[freebeard]

Congrats. I fought to keep my Superbeetle off a salvage title, and to double their payout.

It shouldn't impact being driven, just the resale value. In my case mid-book valuation is up $1150 in the last two years. That wouldn't be the case if it was on a salvage title.

HaroldinCR — Do you have a link to the E-assist alternator? Nevermind, https://www.google.com/search?q=E-assist+alternator

That's an interesting part. Max RPM? If the jungles are full of those, I need to get out more. Else, J&P Cycles has them for $525.99 w/ free [prolly domestic] shipping.

That could make a viable conversion business.

[HaroldinCR]

I would assume similar RPM to a regular alternator, 4000+ ? It is used to propel a 4000 pound vehicle across intersections at an advanced rate of speed helping the 2.4L infernal combustion engine. These are watercooled, also.

I have more info, but, would prefer to start a new thread if I can get enough member interest for building a controller. Would not want to further hijack Paul's thread.

[freebeard]

Certainly do so.

There is a similar thread about the Toyota/Lexus MGR that ran 41 pages. You'll find a lot of the usual suspects there.

If the first post in the thread is updated with newer information, that saves it getting buried in the thread. People can still wade through if they want to see the back-and-forth. I tried to extract and summarize the above thread but gave up after six pages. There is also a Wiki, but I don't know how much it's used.
________

I've been thinking this afternoon about an aircooled boxer VW mild hybrid. A CNC billet generator stand and serpentine belt would be a fine start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2NQ_dO3lMU

There exist serpentine belt drives available for the bigger VW alternators, but this looks like it would need a sturdy base for the belt tensioner.

I don't see a way to attach the stock cooling fan, though.

[kalidasbala]

Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes

Josiah is going to help me do a nice video of the whole setup. He's been practicing his lighting, and has been acting as my apprentice lately.

Oh, and you can just change one little setting, and boom, you have 3 phase power at your house! 208v 3 phase up to 480v 3 phase.

I would be interested in the video. When is it possible to make one?