Poll for Americans: What about Diesel engines?

[instarx]

Originally Posted by cfg83

Big Dave -

Here is where the NOx/PM regulations are going in the USA/EU/Japan :

LOL, I couldn't make heads or tails out of that graph! Then I saw it was by NGK and realized it is one of those Japanese "flower charts" they love so much!

[hal9999]

Sorry for my bad English.
Lets not fight.

I reformulate it:
Usually 10 - 15 % of gasoline used to do it.
I don’t recommend to do this with new engines.

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by guudasitgets

Diesels arent the future if your in cold weather, if they were we'd all be driving deisel volkswagon rabbits and they didn't sell a ton of them did they. The cost cancels out ANY gain EVERY time you figure it out. the cost of the fuel vs the savings in MPG wash that out; unless......... you can name me one manufacturer that prices the vehicle cheaper than an equal gas engine model,,,just one,,,,comon,,, any body wanna tell me? <tapping fingers>, well; Ah that's what I thought. There aren't any. Case closed!

Hmm, extra cost of diesel engine (con) vs added longevity of engine before rebuild (pro)
Hmm, extra cost of diesel fuel (con) vs added fuel economy of diesel (pro)
USA is working the ULSD fuel now, which is a great benefit for the entire world. I await with eagerness the "rush" of diesel engines here in the US. Will I actually see this? Not bloody likely. It is slowly coming but considering the typical automotive business mindset, we wont see "great" diesel engines in serious numbers. Myself I wish to see diesel hybrid units coming here and fast. But again, the US automakers are braindead and dont build true hybrids with great fuel economy but rather build "mild" hybrids that often outrun the stock counterparts! A solid 4 banger with hybrid tech can move our pickup trucks nicely but noone wants to see that here. Personally I await the idea of a Impala/Malibu/Fusion/Taurus/Charger kind of sedan running a diesel 4 banger and hybrid tech. I wont hold my breath though...

[cfg83]

instarx -

Originally Posted by instarx

LOL, I couldn't make heads or tails out of that graph! Then I saw it was by NGK and realized it is one of those Japanese "flower charts" they love so much!

No problemo. It took me a while to figure it out. The horizontal axis is NOx emissions and the vertical axis is PM (Particulate Matter) emissions. The center of the axis is 0/0 for NOx/PM. Each value is "increasing positive" in all directions. Each quadrant "belongs" to one of the nations. For each country. in different years, the regularions regarding NOx/PM emissions is becoming more restrictive, making "smaller and smaller" rectangles.



According to the graph, by 2011, for all three regions, the allowed NOx emissions will be below 1 g/KWh and the allowed PM emissions will be below 0.02 g/KWh.

CarloSW2

.

[JQmile]

Hey guys...I work for Diesel Power Magazine, which pretty much means that I am pro-diesel. The newer computer-controlled diesels are very clean, Ford's compound turbo F250s-350s-450s are an ultra low emissions vehicle. What diesels still offer is great reliability and power producing potential. Many street driven diesel trucks are over 1000 horsepower, and with a flick of a switch, they can be set back to stock (or close to it.) Right now the price of diesel is killing any advantage at the pump, but in my opinion diesels are still a good idea

[ConnClark]

Originally Posted by hal9999

Question for ConnClark:
If it’s true what you say about the ultra fine particulates, can you quantify how much of these are produced by a DPF in comparison to a non-filtered vehicle? More, same, less ?

I would appreciate a scientific document (please no biased WebPages or forums).

http://www.jchbkj.cn/zl/Diesel%20Par...%20Filters.pdf

DPFs make sense for long haul trucks and locomotives where engine duty cycle remains high for an extended period of time. For cars that take short trips they do not make sense because they don't get up to temp long enough to clean themselves.

As engine efficiency rises PM will fall because PM is unutilized fuel.

IMHO environmental agencies should just set standards to meet. They should be forbidden from dictating how they are met such as mandating DPF and catalysts.

[hal9999]

To ConnClark,

thank you, for your interesting document. Albeit the flaw that this document is pretty old (2001) it seams, according your pdf, that DPF have a problem with nano-particles.

If, still today, this is the case then, IMHO, there remain only two approaches to correct this problem:
1. The fatalistic one: To accept this, but to inform the mainstream and press about this problem and thus make pressure to the automobile industry and law makers to resolve this dilemma with what so ever kind of technology ASAP.
2. The “hard way”: To forbid diesel cars until a solution is found. This approach, IMHO, isn’t feasible in Europe due to the importance that diesel cars have won.

I think that the PM is the main problem of the diesels and that any effort to reduce this is necessary.

IMHO, diesels are not the sole or definitive solution but a good alternative as long as we have no clean energy. Like nuclear / cold (?) fusion, high efficient solar energy etc. to produce “fuel” in form of hydrogen, electricity or what ever for cleans cars.

[hal9999]

One thing strikes me in all posted comments.

I expected many posts against diesel cars but not one single one has yet been posted.

As in Europe, there must be some diesel opponents in USA/Canada.

I invite these persons to post their opinions and to have a constructive and respectful discussion.

[festivaWES]

what about diesel? lol i hate diesel cars/trucks.

[hal9999]

Finally an anti-diesel !

... lol i hate diesel cars/trucks.

Could you be more detailed ?
Thanks.