[POLL] Would you drive a hydrogen-powered vehicle?

[jkp1187]

Originally Posted by ConnClark

Oh yes, I forgot to chime in on why I wouldn't drive an H2 powered car. The leakage of H2 from storage alone would wipe out the ozone layer if a population the size of california drove H2 powered cars.

Citation needed for that one, please....

[99metro]

These all electric and all hydrogen vehicles are designed for city folks that have short commutes or access to these specialty fuels.

It's not that I wouldn't drive one, it's that I couldn't.

[ConnClark]

Originally Posted by jkp1187

Citation needed for that one, please....

here is a start
Study Says Hydrogen Leakage could Harm Earth's Ozone Layer

I'll look for the more specific one regarding california sized population later.

also note CFCs only damage about 5 to 7 % of the ozone layer

[NiHaoMike]

Originally Posted by ConnClark

Except you start reducing the range that radio transmitters can transmit so they have to resort to using more power to transmit. You may not pay for it directly but someone will and some of that cost will find its way back to you.

There is no free lunch

If possible, patent the energy collection device. Then just say something like: "I discovered this strange atmospheric energy phenomenon while experimenting with Tesla coils and here's the patent I got on it. Now I'm using it to help America get off foreign oil dependence."

Even if it's not free energy, it does not load down the grid and reclaims a resource that is currently being wasted. Technically, it would be more efficient to put that electricity into the grid using a grid tie inverter, but generating hydrogen would solve an energy storage problem.

[wagonman76]

Originally Posted by 99metro

These all electric and all hydrogen vehicles are designed for city folks that have short commutes or access to these specialty fuels.

It's not that I wouldn't drive one, it's that I couldn't.

^ Same here.

Also even though hydrogen takes energy to make, I would think that the drilling of oil, transportation to the refinery, refining into gasoline, and transportation of the gasoline to gas stations would take more energy than producing hydrogen locally.

[jamesqf]

As others have said, hydrogen is not an energy source, but an energy storage medium. Unfortunately, it is about the worst possible storage medium for cars. It might beat giant rubber bands, but not by much.

You start out with something that's inefficient to create. Then add the fact that it's extremely difficult to store. Because the H2 molecule is so small, it seeps through almost anything, often changing the material structure as it goes. (See "hydrogen embrittlement".) To collect a useful quantity, you either have to compress it to high pressures, which takes energy and strong, heavy storage tanks, or you have to liquify it. That again takes energy to cool it to the super-low temperatures needed, and more energy to keep it cold. Then you have to add all this infrastructure to trucks or pipelines...

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by NiHaoMike

Even if it's not free energy, it does not load down the grid and reclaims a resource that is currently being wasted.

(Sigh) I suggest doing some basic arithmetic. How much energy goes into even the most powerful commercial radio stations? (Maybe 50 KW, tops.) Spread this energy out over an area of say 50 miles for an FM station, or a couple of thousand for a strong AM station: what's the energy density? Not very much. Ever stop to wonder why radio receivers have amplifiers, or why you have to put batteries in them, or plug them into a wall socket?

[NiHaoMike]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

(Sigh) I suggest doing some basic arithmetic. How much energy goes into even the most powerful commercial radio stations? (Maybe 50 KW, tops.) Spread this energy out over an area of say 50 miles for an FM station, or a couple of thousand for a strong AM station: what's the energy density? Not very much. Ever stop to wonder why radio receivers have amplifiers, or why you have to put batteries in them, or plug them into a wall socket?

Actually, it is possible to extract a surprising amount of energy with a resonant antenna. Especially if it's only a short distance away. (Remember that RFIDs are powered by radio waves from the reader.)

[jamesqf]

Sure, but the key there is the short distance. Remember your inverse square law? You might also compare the amount of energy actually captured by the RFID device with the amount output by the reader. The key to the system is the sensitivity of the detector in the reader...

Then remember conservation of energy. Say you have a 50 KW radio transmitter: even if you had a 100% efficient source/receiver coupling, how many people could draw 1 KW from that radio broadcast?

[NiHaoMike]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Sure, but the key there is the short distance. Remember your inverse square law? You might also compare the amount of energy actually captured by the RFID device with the amount output by the reader. The key to the system is the sensitivity of the detector in the reader...

Then remember conservation of energy. Say you have a 50 KW radio transmitter: even if you had a 100% efficient source/receiver coupling, how many people could draw 1 KW from that radio broadcast?

http://amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html
No, I would not expect radio to power all of our transportation, but wouldn't you rather use even a small amount of that 50kW to power some cars instead of just letting it get lost to the environment? Use it or lose it.

If the power receivers are in the cars themselves, they can be programmed to share the power. If it's just one at a hydrogen generation plant, it's even easier since there's only one receiver until some rivals set up a competing plant...