Project 100mpg

[Christ]

Yeah, Cali's that bad. I have a bunch of friends out that way, and many of them "live" in other states so they don't have to pass all the BS emissions that Cali has.

Unless it's designed for your car and CARB exempt, you ain't using it legally. Get caught violating those laws, they impound your car. (That mostly applies to racers, though.) Good luck getting it back.

Switching cams will allow you to still pass inspections, but you'll have to be good about tuning your emissions load for the dyno runs.

I didn't realize where you were when I recommended that.

P.S. Don't get caught up in the xfer gear swapping - DOHC and SOHC Neons have the same xfer gears. There are others you can use, though, just google Neon Transfer Gear Swap to get more info on it. I believe you can use the transfer gears to fine tune your rev range, like swapping a final drive, but much easier.

[TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL]

thanks robert, tygen, the engine rebuild isnt anytime soon, just future plans for when this one goes. The aeromods are going to be done in fiberglass for now, im starting to work on a bumper as soon as im back from my wedding. The clutch is going in because i already have it. I currently have 3 transmissions, and 4 engines. Plus one whole rolling chasis. the transmission in this car is getting sold, as its a racing gear ratio. One of the transmissions is getting put in this car, its a economy ratio. The other one is the same ratio, but its being sent off to get modified, in for the time when i can do an electric neon.

for now, theres no OEC for me, its still around 100 degrees here when driving home, and until i get my upgraded battery set up and alt removed, theres no eoc at night on the way to work either. Winter will be a different story. I am working on a kill switch tho, so my intrumentation keeps track.

and tires+wheels are coming mid next year, current tires are in too good of condition to just toss

[TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL]

christ, yep, thats cali for you. I figure the cams they cant see, and can be tuned with cam gears. The intake mani will have to be swapped for a neon one, and the alternator will have to be put back on, as thats also illegal.

my cars a stick, the old one was a auto, but mine has the ACR close ratio high final drive tranny in it. I have the base model 3.55FD to go in it in 2 weeks. Should drop my cruising rpms by 25%.

On tires, just curious if the 165/60-14s are really better then what i was considering, 185/70-14 bridgestone B381's, which is supposed to have a CRR of .00615. The smaller tires would be more aerodynamic, however i plan to shield the tires from the air as much as possible, similar to aerocivic. Im sure they would be lighter, but at the same time they would raise my cruising rpms by just over 200 rpms. Anyone have the CRR of the 165/60-14s? And weights, i cant seem to find the tires on tirerack.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

christ, yep, thats cali for you. I figure the cams they cant see, and can be tuned with cam gears. The intake mani will have to be swapped for a neon one, and the alternator will have to be put back on, as thats also illegal.

my cars a stick, the old one was a auto, but mine has the ACR close ratio high final drive tranny in it. I have the base model 3.55FD to go in it in 2 weeks. Should drop my cruising rpms by 25%.

On tires, just curious if the 165/60-14s are really better then what i was considering, 185/70-14 bridgestone B381's, which is supposed to have a CRR of .00615. The smaller tires would be more aerodynamic, however i plan to shield the tires from the air as much as possible, similar to aerocivic. Im sure they would be lighter, but at the same time they would raise my cruising rpms by just over 200 rpms. Anyone have the CRR of the 165/60-14s? And weights, i cant seem to find the tires on tirerack.

Be careful about cam gears, they're illegal too, AFAIK. They can't see them under the cover, but don't be too blatant about your tuning, either.

I can't believe it's illegal to not have the alternator... that's just stupid. Maybe in that case, you could just use a kill switch for the alternator, instead of actually deleting it? You don't get as much of a gain, but at the same time, you gain the ability to turn 'er back on at will.

[TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL]

im pretty lucky and have a decent smog guy, even if he saw the cam gears, i would be ok as long as it passed the sniffer test.

as far as the alternator, thats considered a "driveline" modification according to CARB.

i talked with them about it, only giving my first name. In order to be legal, i would have to apply for a CARB EO. Which means, i would have to first make sure i could do it while keeping the engine light from turning on, then explain how i was able to do it without the engine light turning on. Then they would have to test the idea on a car for emissions. Of course, since im not planning to sell the product, im at the very bottom of the list and will be gotten to whenever they get around to it. Heres where it gets funny tho.

The director of communications for CARB, told me this. That theres 2 kinds of pollution, "smog pollution", which is carcinegens, and "global warming pollution". He also went on to say that while global warming pollution and gas mileage usually go hand in hand (improving one improves the other), that smog pollution doesnt, and often improving gas mileage increases "smog" pollution. He then went on to say that in no way can i increase the amount of "smog" pollution the vehical puts out. As far as the "global warming" pollution, they dont care so much about that.

Like my dad said, there basically saying that if i make 1 more person sick out of the already overpopulated 6 billion people, they'll fail me. But if i make a 1 in 60 million chance the end of the planet as we know it more likely, they dont care. On the california smog test, your allowed a huge amount of co2 compared to anything else on the test, 100 times as much. And i still dont see reducing my gas usuage by 50% or more increasing any kind of pollution, period. My dad has a masters in physics, and he basically said their full of it.

[dcb]

Well it isn't all that simple. It is possible to increase NOX (smog component) emissions and improve MPG by leaning out the mixture. But there are MPG improving techniques that reduce all emissions too. I would think a cam that did more of an atkinson cycle would improve emissions and efficiency.

But NOX does peak on the lean side of stoic, and cars designed to lean burn have special catalytic converters (and probably still aren't sold in CA).

[TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL]

lean burn is still sold here, i know my dads civic hybrid is noticeable when it goes into lean burn, but i believe your right, that different cats are used.

as far as the neon, i wont be doing lean burn in it. closest thing to really messing with the engine is possibly the cams from a 2.4L stratus/van, and the intake manifold, both of which should significantly lower my torque peaks rpm. Everything else to help mileage will be reducing drag, weight, and parasitic losses.

[Christ]

dcb - is that graph specific to a certain type of engine, or universally applied to 4 stroke engines?

From that graph, it looks like one could get lowered emissions by going to about 17:1, which lowers CO and HC, but keeps NOx the same or close to it.

[dcb]

It's your standard issue mixture graph, can't swing a dead cat without hitting one

[pgfpro]

What do Hydrocarbons do when you go past 23:1 A/F?