Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-11-2011, 02:58 PM   #51 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
euromodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 4,665

GasDwarf - '13 Volkswagen up! EcoFuel CNG
Thanks: 176
Thanked 637 Times in 504 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
So, 5 pages into a request for empirical evidence, and this thread is no different than any other tire inflation thread; how disappointing.
It's pretty involved to set up such a test.
You'd need something like a track or closed off parking lot, as doing this on public roads would be dangerous.
You'd need an on site compressor with a calibrated gauge.

And worst of all it'd ruin the tester's fuel economy for that tank

__________________
GasDwarf's fuel consumption :
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 06-11-2011, 05:39 PM   #52 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 17
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by euromodder View Post
It's pretty involved to set up such a test.
You'd need something like a track or closed off parking lot, as doing this on public roads would be dangerous.
You'd need an on site compressor with a calibrated gauge.

And worst of all it'd ruin the tester's fuel economy for that tank
The economy test would be relatively easy. Disconnect the fuel line from the gas tank and run it instead for a small recipient, 2-3 litters. Fill the small container with gas, do a run of 10 Km, after which you weight the container. I usually like to do 3 runs 10 km each at constant speed (cruise control will help)

If anyone is (seriously) interested in a test, let's open a new thread called something like... "Ecomodder driving test" or "Ecomodder tire test" or similar where we can coordinate ourselves and join the efforts to make it happen.

We can pick a date, a place and we can agree on the kind of methodology is going to be employed for the test. To the test can participate supporters and "naysayers" alike. (specially naysayers)

One of the tests I am absolutely itching to perform and document is the tire bursting point on laden/unladen axle load, laden/unladen tire load.
I did so far about 15 similar tests but mostly for the class demonstration.

Our onSite tire specialist CapriRacer said that tire manufacturer is not interested in tire's bursting point as this is irrelevant to the PSI methodology used on the placard (pillar B sticker).

This is what he said:
"Burst data? You wonít find that published anywhere. Why would anyone want to know what the burst pressure is if they are using pressures well away from the burst pressure? Ė and if they arenít, then they will have to accept the results of that decision"
Questions is...: Why don't they publish the data? Anything to hide?!?

With all due respect and esteem for CapriRacer, I believe he is either uninformed or he is not entirely truthful when he says tire manufacturers do not perform tire bursting tests.

Here is the proof:

I believe the only reason he is shy to admit to the tire bursting tests is that the results would very much support my findings, namely a passenger tire can rated 41 PSI take over 200PSI and a 90 PSI rated tire in the range of 300 PSI



The video above, inadvertently made its way to the public, as this test was ordered by a tire manufacturer to fight in court a legal dispute.

In this test they wanted to show what happens with a tire when someone is performing a welding job on the rim while the tire is still inflated.

Beside that (the obvious), we have learned from that video, and this is what the tire manufacturer is not very happy about, that a 90PSI rated tire would support over 300 PSI (not to mention the over 1300 Fahrenheit)
A typical operating temperature for a passenger tire is between 160F - 220F

You should download that video and have it in your own collection as one of the tire manufacturers filed a petition to have that video clip removed from youtube
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 06:22 PM   #53 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
vtec-e's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ireland
Posts: 507

De Yaris - '04 toyota yaris T2
90 day: 69.55 mpg (US)
Thanks: 111
Thanked 32 Times in 22 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by marinpa View Post
You should download that video and have it in your own collection as one of the tire manufacturers filed a petition to have that video clip removed from youtube
Already done! Thank you, videos like this are hard to find!
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 07:57 PM   #54 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 17
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtec-e View Post
Already done! Thank you, videos like this are hard to find!
Brother, they are not hard to find...they are impossible to find.
No independent lab test would dare to perform a such test and publicize the results, unless they have a death/bankruptcy wish.


As far as I am concerned this is the only official test of a bursting tire.
On Youtube there are 2-3 other tire bursting videos but nothing serious, more of a fun than a test.

Now please imagine that is there would have been a test, such as the "Bursting Point Test" that would support the oil industry (tire/car/oil producer) cause and claims, rest assured that mass-media and internet would be full of them.

But they are not in the favor of their economical interests; so, they try to keep a lead on it.

It's up to us to inform ourselves, test, spread the word and share the knowledge.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 07:59 PM   #55 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 17
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
One thing is for sure, the three industries (tire/car/oil producer) are in cahoots.

Vehicle engineers are acting upon source documents provided by the tire engineers. Both "gangs" have a mutual agreement to abide by those documents. The methodology of those documents, called "Tire Load Tables", published by "Tire Standardizing Organizations" is about 40 years old. In fact representatives of both tire manufacturer and car manufacturer are on the committees that are the source for these tables.

Can a vehicle manufacturer change the way tires are designed? Yes they can! All they have to do is submitting a request to the "Tire Standardizing Organizations" for a different set of standards.

They can do it now just as they have done it in the past.

But why would they? Business is good the way it is. Why change if no one complains?

Last edited by marinpa; 06-12-2011 at 12:09 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 09:29 PM   #56 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
vtec-e's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ireland
Posts: 507

De Yaris - '04 toyota yaris T2
90 day: 69.55 mpg (US)
Thanks: 111
Thanked 32 Times in 22 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by marinpa View Post
One ting is for sure, the three industries (tire/car/oil producer) are an cahoots.
I would tend to agree. But i would also say that is simply good business on their behalf. Very good business.
Look at the failure of the aptera, the loremo and other FE cars that never made it to production. No accident.
Anyway, with respect to the thread, i still wish to see someone better equipped than i carrying out this brake test. I have neither the time nor the resources to carry this out, only anecdotal evidence or personal experience. I'm reasonably convinced but that's not enough. There are many people out there with the resources but use it for nonsensical purposes. Just look through youtube and see what i mean. A simple brake test would be nice! Some videos come awfully close but not close enough. Ah well.

__________________
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com