Protean electric hub motors in 2014

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

My leaf uses nissan electric power steering and it's pretty nice.

It's probably filled with electronic algorithms intended to mimic manual or analog steering systems.

The ones I've read about are intended to provide the driver with some feedback - but not too much.

Yes, a good example of engineering overcoming a liability, limited driver feedback with early electronic steering systems. All that visual input with no verification via feedback stimulus and the brain starts to freak out.

Only trained pilots are instrument rated for a reason, the rest of us rely on evolution and prior experiences to lead our way, and that means feedback.

Ever lose part of your voice in an anechoic chamber?

That lack of feedback is an eerie feeling, can't find the exit quickly enough.

[seifrob]

Maybe someone will chime in, i cannot find the link- there was some start-up company develoing a kind of commuter, maybe evet trike, but never finished. Their only visible achievement was in-wheel suspension of some kind. That might help.

[oil pan 4]

Sounds like one of those Obama era fake start-ups that take tons of federal alternative energy money then go under after producing some cheesy prototypes.

[seifrob]

Most probably. Living on the other side of the pond, I never heard of it elsewhere. But someone here on the forum mentioned that this suspension was what he actually liked about the company.
If I am near my desktop PC, I will try to provide a link. Navigating is a bit tiring on my 3 inch display.

[niky]

They were designed to... but apparently a lot got turned down. Some of the more serious ones we've talked about in here over the past few years never qualified for their loans.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by seifrob

Maybe someone will chime in, i cannot find the link- there was some start-up company develoing a kind of commuter, maybe evet trike, but never finished. Their only visible achievement was in-wheel suspension of some kind. That might help.

Perhaps you're thinking of Edison2. They developed a super lightweight gasoline powered car to win an X prize, and they spun off another company to pursue in wheel suspension, but that appears to have been a flop.

In wheel suspension seems to be as good an idea as in wheel motors, which is to say not very, and in limited applications.

[seifrob]

It was Edison 2. They even had dedicated thread here on EM, it seems.
(I would find it sooner, but one has to sleep sometimes).

The working combination of both (in-wheel motor plus suspension) sounds like unicorn, but makes sense. You cannot rely on under-inflated tyres to keep motor from road bumps.

[Isaac Zackary]

Originally Posted by thingstodo

Last time I looked into it (as deeply as a non-mechanical guy like me can) the issue was having the 'car' hanging off one side of the wheel, not both sides.

The hub motors on scooters, motorcycles, bicycles have the advantage of bearings on both sides of the wheel, connected to support arms on both sides of the wheels. So when the bearing surface wears a bit, the wheel is still level, the clearances still work, etc

On the car wheel, once the bearing(or bearings) start to wear .. just a little bit ... less than when the mechanical guys start to worry about it ... the tight tolerances on the rotor (rotating part) and stator (stationary part) of teh wheel motor ... get tighter. When there is enough wear to let the rotor rub the stator, metal shards come off, plug off the gap between rotor and stator ... and the motor comes to an ABRUPT halt. The wheel LOCKS in place and SKIDS the rubber off.

This sort of catastrophic failure was seen ... rumor only ... since NO ONE in industry wants to talk about things that they try that FAIL ... starting before the first set of tires was worn off to about midway on the second set of tires. 20,000 miles to 60,000 miles.

I have yet to read about a fix for this. If someone does figure it out, it will likely be patented ... so perhaps there are several companies with a magic solution already. But I have seen no evidence so far.

On this topic ... is there a technical reason why car tires and suspension don't use support (and bearings) on both sides of the wheel? Or is it just that it makes the car look goofy?

There is no advantage to supporting the hub on both sides than just one. The hub just has to be sized for the type of stress it will be under. For an example, the length of the axle stub and therefore distance between the bearings could be made much longer than the width of the wheel if need be without the need for supporting it on both sides. The axle stub will need to be made a beefier if it's supported on only one side. But the weight penalty of the bigger axle stub would likely be not much different than the linkage to the other side.

If supporting wheel hubs on only one side with heavy wheels were a problem there would be a lot of big commercial vehicles with worn out wheel bearings.

The problem mentioned above may be from off centered bearings. But that is possible to solve even if supported from just one side.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by seifrob

Maybe someone will chime in, i cannot find the link- there was some start-up company develoing a kind of commuter, maybe evet trike, but never finished. Their only visible achievement was in-wheel suspension of some kind. That might help.

Similar to this?

Airless Tire from Michelin
Airless Tire from Michelin


Published on May 14, 2006
Michelin's Revolutionary Airless Tires
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=pcdmH_hVWBY

At the 1:00 minute mark, good comparison.

Tweel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN4AjfoiZPQ

John Deere
Published on Oct 22, 2014

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by seifrob

It was Edison 2. They even had dedicated thread here on EM, it seems.
(I would find it sooner, but one has to sleep sometimes).

The working combination of both (in-wheel motor plus suspension) sounds like unicorn, but makes sense. You cannot rely on under-inflated tyres to keep motor from road bumps.

I found this.


Driving the Edison 2 Very Light Car 4.0
April 18, 2013
https://autoweek.com/article/car-new...y-light-car-40

Photo by Eric Tegler
Driving the Edison 2 Very Light Car 4.0

It rides on Edison 2's patented “in-wheel” suspension, the most innovative (and likely most commercially attractive) aspect of the project. The arrangement consists of front and rear crossbeams attached to each bulkhead. The beams carry the in-wheel suspension and absorb its loads.

Entirely within 17-inch wheels are small, specially fabricated control arms, coil-over shocks/springs and a hub/spindle assembly.

Up front, the in-wheel suspension mounts to the beam through a carrier that anchors both the upper shock mount and a bearing that allows a large carrier to swivel. Out back, in-wheel components mount to the beam via short trailing arms. Driveshafts couple to a cogged-belt system within the hub assembly. Eliminating conventional strut towers confers packaging benefits. Kuttner has launched a new company, Edison 4, specifically to market the unique suspension.

Drive for the VLC 4.0 comes from a 45-kW electric motor, but the rear/mid-engine design is agnostic, happily accepting internal combustion or hybrid powertrains. Without a body, the entire package comes in at 1,089 pounds. The forthcoming body will be another streamliner with outboard wheel fairings.

Read more: https://autoweek.com/article/car-new...#ixzz5WeKDEJoD