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-   -   Really, acetone? (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/really-acetone-3101.html)

gteclass 06-16-2008 04:58 AM

Really, acetone?
 
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/524517...as_mileage_2x/

also..
http://www.pureenergysystems.com/new...00069_Acetone/

any ideas?

SVOboy 06-16-2008 10:35 AM

This site says much more than I can: http://fuelsaving.info/

If you look at the other stuff on the PES site, you'll get an idea how BSy it is.

ConnClark 06-16-2008 10:52 AM

Acetone may get you slightly better mileage in a diesel because it behaves as an aromatic and bumps up the Cetane rating of the fuel a little. There are however commercial additives that are more effective such as Power Service and others don't harm your engine.

In a gasoline engine acetone is not going to get you a thing and may even reduce your mileage.

blownintegra 06-16-2008 06:29 PM

when I used to sniff acetone, my mileage went down...

so did my IQ...;)

trikkonceptz 06-16-2008 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConnClark (Post 35220)
In a gasoline engine acetone is not going to get you a thing and may even reduce your mileage.


I say try it, I have been using Acetone in my vehicle for the past three months, it gave me an initial 4mpg boost @ 1mL per gallon and has remained consistent ever since. My car didn't seem to like it when I went to 2oz per gallon, but each vehicle may react differently to the mixtures. Optimal for me is 1oz per 10 gallon and along with my driving techniques and simple mods I have gone from 27mpg to 45mpg, (Check my Logs)

I also recently did a blind test on my wife car, and we also saw a 4mpg jump in it and then a 7mpg drop with the subsequent tank w/o Acetone.

So best not to take anyones word for it, try it. A 1 or 2 tank test will not harm your engine and of course once you stop all conditions return to normal. But without it I would not be at the MPG levels I am at now with my automatic ...

ConnClark 06-16-2008 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trikkonceptz (Post 35369)
I say try it, I have been using Acetone in my vehicle for the past three months, it gave me an initial 4mpg boost @ 1mL per gallon and has remained consistent ever since. My car didn't seem to like it when I went to 2oz per gallon, but each vehicle may react differently to the mixtures. Optimal for me is 1oz per 10 gallon and along with my driving techniques and simple mods I have gone from 27mpg to 45mpg, (Check my Logs)

I also recently did a blind test on my wife car, and we also saw a 4mpg jump in it and then a 7mpg drop with the subsequent tank w/o Acetone.

So best not to take anyones word for it, try it. A 1 or 2 tank test will not harm your engine and of course once you stop all conditions return to normal. But without it I would not be at the MPG levels I am at now with my automatic ...

hmmmm..... How does 1/3785th of a gallon additive translate into a 4 mpg boost? Answer: it doesn't. You filled the tank with more gas when you did the acetone test than you did without the acetone. Blatant proof is you have a 3 mpg drop below your base line without the acetone.

To truly top off a tank you have to fill it to the top of the neck. Then you have to put the cap back on and bounce and rock the car around to get the fuel to displace trapped air in the tank. You will have to do these two steps a few times. I have found I can pack an extra .7 gallons in my car that way. To get a consistent mileage reading you also need to do this each time you fill up. You also have to do it from the same pump having your car face the exact same way to rule out influence of slope of the pavement.

Also your wife has a 2006 car and your mileage is only 5.3% above EPA. To do this poor with my car I have to drive around with my foot in it almost all the time and my car was built back in 1985.

gteclass 06-17-2008 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConnClark (Post 35412)
hmmmm..... How does 1/3785th of a gallon additive translate into a 4 mpg boost? Answer: it doesn't. You filled the tank with more gas when you did the acetone test than you did without the acetone. Blatant proof is you have a 3 mpg drop below your base line without the acetone..

This is typical naysayer logic... The percentage of the additive is not what is important, it is the vapor pressure and surface tension of the mixture of gasoline and acetone that gives the boost in efficiency. The drop below the baseline was probably because it takes a full tank on most cars for the computer to adjust the fuel trims for new gas. This is also why most people get best mileage out of the gas station they always go to. Not because the gas is necessarily better, but because the car is used to that particular gas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConnClark (Post 35412)
To truly top off a tank you have to fill it to the top of the neck. Then you have to put the cap back on and bounce and rock the car around to get the fuel to displace trapped air in the tank. You will have to do these two steps a few times. I have found I can pack an extra .7 gallons in my car that way. To get a consistent mileage reading you also need to do this each time you fill up. You also have to do it from the same pump having your car face the exact same way to rule out influence of slope of the pavement.

Really bad advice, topping off a tank in this way is extremely bad for your evap system. Please just fill up until it clicks once. If you record your mileage at every fill up and the ammount of gallons it took to get there the resulting average fuel economy will be accurate. Each individual mileage reading between fill ups will vary no matter what you do, but the average of your readings will be accurate when you look at a few fillups.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConnClark (Post 35412)
Also your wife has a 2006 car and your mileage is only 5.3% above EPA. To do this poor with my car I have to drive around with my foot in it almost all the time and my car was built back in 1985.

For one thing, maybe his wife does drive around with her foot in it. And are you going by the old epa estimates for your car or the new ones. Not to mention, 80s cars are MORE efficient than todays pieces of junk. Trust me also, getting 5% better mileage on a V8 truck with todays emmissions and safety standards without any hypermiling techniques is a serious gain.

elhigh 06-17-2008 08:56 AM

This acetone idea is worthless for my truck, right? Carburetor doesn't care what goes through it so long as it's flammable, right? There are no sensors to fool into leaning out the mixtures.

Lazarus 06-17-2008 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConnClark (Post 35412)
Also your wife has a 2006 car and your mileage is only 5.3% above EPA. To do this poor with my car I have to drive around with my foot in it almost all the time and my car was built back in 1985.

The relationship to EPA mileage has nothing to do with the question about acetone. It would be better to talk about why the protocol used and all the other reasons why tank to tank testing proves nothing would be better. Let the data and procedures speak for themself.

ConnClark 06-17-2008 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gteclass (Post 35512)
This is typical naysayer logic... The percentage of the additive is not what is important, it is the vapor pressure and surface tension of the mixture of gasoline and acetone that gives the boost in efficiency. The drop below the baseline was probably because it takes a full tank on most cars for the computer to adjust the fuel trims for new gas. This is also why most people get best mileage out of the gas station they always go to. Not because the gas is necessarily better, but because the car is used to that particular gas.

ummmm... gasoline has a surface tension of about 21 ergs/cm^2 and acetone has a surface tension of about 23.7 ergs/cm^2 . If you could please post a link to some scientific produced table of the surface tension of acetone and gasoline solutions please feel free to do so.

By claiming that acetone lowers the surface tension I assume you are trying to say that acetone makes the fuel atomize more completely and thus burn more completely? Seeing that most cars burn 98% of their fuel how does burning 2% more fuel translate into into a 4mpg boost unless your car gets 200 mpg? It can't cause the fuel to burn faster because you would end up with a knock and that would cause shock waves to bounce around in the combustion chamber scrubbing heat from the gases to the walls lowering efficiency. What exact mechanism causes this claimed boost in efficiency?

Car computers adjust a cars operating parameters fairly quickly. Want proof? Try changing out a faulty O2 sensor. It doesn't take a full tank of gas for the computer to adjust to this. The car runs better immediately.

Lets say that it does take a full tank of gas for a car's computer to adjust things. That would mean that trikkonceptz alternating tanks of acetone laced and pure gas would be a total wash.

Quote:

Really bad advice, topping off a tank in this way is extremely bad for your evap system. Please just fill up until it clicks once. If you record your mileage at every fill up and the ammount of gallons it took to get there the resulting average fuel economy will be accurate. Each individual mileage reading between fill ups will vary no matter what you do, but the average of your readings will be accurate when you look at a few fillups.
I agree that there is truth to this statement. However in trikkonceptz's tests he was doing one tank with acetone laced fuel and the next tank without. There is no way to get a running average when testing in this matter. The only way to get an accurate reading is to drain the tank completely and then refill it or top the tank completely off with the former method being better than the latter.

Quote:

For one thing, maybe his wife does drive around with her foot in it. And are you going by the old epa estimates for your car or the new ones. Not to mention, 80s cars are MORE efficient than todays pieces of junk. Trust me also, getting 5% better mileage on a V8 truck with todays emmissions and safety standards without any hypermiling techniques is a serious gain.
In my mileage log calculation I use the new epa estimates however I just fixed the front suspension and had an alignment. I will also have new tires before I top off next and the last tank was about 80% city driving. The old epa estimate for my car is 22mpg the current one is 19mpg.

but lets see how my car stacks up to a new one.

1985 Mercedes 300SD California emissions
3.0L turbo diesel
118 hp @ 4,350 rpm
177 lb-ft @ 2,400 rpm
new epa estimate 19mpg city 20mpg hwy 19 combined
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008c...olumn=1&id=339

2008 Mercedes Benz E320 Bluetech
3.0L turbo diesel
210hp @ 3,800 rpm
400 lb-ft @ 1,600 - 2,400 rpm
23mpg city 32mpg hwy 26 combined

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008s...E320%20Bluetec

I think new cars are more powerful and more efficient despite tougher emissions controls and more restrictive emissions devices. They are cleaner too


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