Replacement EV battery dilemas... Spark and Leaf

[Isaac Zachary]

EV batteries are expensive. Any idea of if and when they'll every go down in price? I had thought that by now there'd be more aftermarket options and that those would be cheaper. But it doesn't seem to be that way yet.

A new 24kWh Nissan Leaf battery replacement went from some $5,000 originally to about $8,000 now (including labor).

Chevy has stopped supplying EV batteries for their Spark EV, even ones that are only 3 years old.

Sometimes the EV future looks bleak for those of us who buy used cars.

[ksa8907]

I would venture to guess the used car market is inflating the parts market. It could be a long time before that normalizes.

[redpoint5]

Perhaps a 3rd party will make affordable replacements for the Leaf in the future, but not likely for the Spark since there aren't too many.

Are Spark batteries suffering degradation like Leaf though? A Spark really only needs to be usable for about 15 years, as that's about the typical lifetime of a vehicle.

I view both the Leaf and Spark as disposable vehicles, meaning when the battery is no longer useful the car only has salvage and scrap value. That's not really much different than any other vehicle though. If I owned a 15 year old Chevy Aveo and the engine died, I'd just scrap the thing.

[Piwoslaw]

I think batteries are not getting cheaper, or even getting more expensive, because demand for them has drastically gone up in the last few years - hybrids and EV vehicles, and also the growing need for renewable energy storage. The supply is restricted by limited capacity of mining and processing rare elements needed for their production.
Not to mention that Covid has impacted staffing in mines and factories.
And politics related to some of the main supplying countries...

[redpoint5]

That's been my assumption too, that battery pricing is probably holding steady in the near term due to supply issues and increasing demand. My crystal ball is a bit cloudy looking out into the future.

I think we're going to have to automate a lot more labor if we're really going to start manufacturing a bunch of stuff here, because nobody wants to work and those that do think their labor is worth a lot more than it is in a global marketplace.

Those that want an earth not impacted by humanity will have to get over the fact that mining battery minerals entails changing the earth.

[ksa8907]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

That's been my assumption too, that battery pricing is probably holding steady in the near term due to supply issues and increasing demand. My crystal ball is a bit cloudy looking out into the future.

I think we're going to have to automate a lot more labor if we're really going to start manufacturing a bunch of stuff here, because nobody wants to work and those that do think their labor is worth a lot more than it is in a global marketplace.

Those that want an earth not impacted by humanity will have to get over the fact that mining battery minerals entails changing the earth.

If the reference is to China and their manufacturing power, it's not necessarily cheap labor that gives them the advantage. China as a whole has invested heavily in automation, allowing economies of scale and to undercut everyone else in their respective market.

So... you're right, generally; people don't scale.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by ksa8907

If the reference is to China and their manufacturing power, it's not necessarily cheap labor that gives them the advantage. China as a whole has invested heavily in automation, allowing economies of scale and to undercut everyone else in their respective market.

So... you're right, generally; people don't scale.

My reference is the whole thing. Available minerals, cheap labor, relaxed environmental regulation, automation, and probably dozens of other things I'm not aware of.

[ME_Andy]

Lithium iron phosphate batteries are the hot new thing. No cadmium or nickel required. So I've been hearing that they cost, like, 40% less than the previous versions of lithium ion batteries. There are other benefits, too. You can watch some videos by the "Electric Viking" about it on YouTube.

It's cool that I had one of these LiFePO4 batteries as my starter battery several years ago, thanks to something I read on here.

EV market share in Europe is up to 22% now, and the F150 Lightning just got released. Exciting times.

I have no idea what we'll do in a couple years when our Leaf battery needs replacement. At $8k it's really tempting to just put it towards a new car. On the other hand, I kinda want to keep our Leaf because it's a humble bit of history. Kinda like a Model T.

[redpoint5]

LiFePO4 is not new, and it's not cheap. Since it has less energy density of other lithium ion chemistries, it ends up costing more per kWh.

[JSH]

GM did not discontinue making Spark EV batteries. They simply ran out of stock and that got passed around as them being discontinued.

That said - nobody is going to pay out of pocket to replace a Spark battery. When I had 2016 Spark EV an OEM replacement battery was $22K.

GM Parts Direct has a OEM refurbished Spark EV battery for $10,070.

High Voltage Battery, Refurbished 1219332480

High voltage, 2015-16. This part requires programming and/or special setup procedures. GM Service Information describes the procedures and special tools needed to ensure proper operation in the vehicle. This GM Genuine Part is designed, engineered, and tested to rigorous standards and is backed by General Motors