On The Road: Green Car Drive-Off: EV vs. Hybrid vs. Gas

[Ryland]

Originally Posted by The Rooster

First, I don't understand the 30 mpg vs Electric comparison. What car the size of the Nissan Leaf, gets just 30 mpg? Ford Fiesta gets 40, Hyndai Sonata gets 40, Yaris gets 36, and they are all in the $15k or under range to purchase.

I do love the simplicity of the Electric car, but it needs to shave about 10g's off the price and double in range before it becomes even a remotely practical alternative...Oh, and come with a free charger.

How about comparing the Leaf to the other Nissan car that is shares it's platform with? the Nissan Versa, a best case EPA mileage of 26/34

Also if you read other electric vehicle articles in Home Power magazine you will notice that they have had articles on home built electric cars, on buying use factory built electric cars and I have yet to see an electric car that does not have a built in charger, the charging stations are an extension cord that is bolted to the wall and has some safety switches built in, some of them have options for smart grid controls, timers or smart phone communications, if you just want the cord with the safety switches it sounds like $250-400 and you will have a high voltage cord mounted on your wall that the dog can lick or you can drop in your coffee or use while standing in the rain, if you want it to talk to your smart phone then it costs more, if you want to go to the hardware store and use a standard 14 gauge cord you can do that as well, that is what I do with my fancy high priced ($3,500) factory built electric car that I have been trying to figure out the carbon foot print of.
In reading up on the carbon footprint side of electric cars I've seen as high as being compared to a 120mpg gas car (90mpg had better math to back it up) down to this 50mpg gas car figure and of course there are people like my self who pay an extra $3 per month for wind offset electricity and for that true warm fuzzy feeling I visit my parents and charge off their 1930's wind generator and 1980's solar panels.

[The Rooster]

If I could build my own electric car that went 60mph, had a range of 120 miles with charge to spare while running heat or AC and full lights, and I could do it for about $5 grand...I'd do it in a heartbeat. But so far, I can't figure out how. Apparently manufacturers haven't either.

Maybe I'll just get a used 1st gen Insight instead of tourturing my Integra.

[Daox]

Well, there is a reason we all aren't driving electric cars yet and it is and always has been $. If it were without a doubt cheaper we'd already be doing it. I don't think thats in question here.

[Ryland]

Originally Posted by The Rooster

If I could build my own electric car that went 60mph, had a range of 120 miles with charge to spare while running heat or AC and full lights, and I could do it for about $5 grand...I'd do it in a heartbeat. But so far, I can't figure out how. Apparently manufacturers haven't either.

Can automakers build a gas car that they can sell for $5,000? Not unless you want a Tata that is not designed to be repaired and can't be sold in the US.
Used electric car prices are already dropping, Toyota Rav-4 EV's that were selling for $45,000 now have Buy It Now prices on Ebay for $25,000, a Solectra Chevy E-10 truck is on there for $8,000 where I have seen them sell for $20,000-$25,000 in the past.
My point is, if you want an electric car there are factory built ones that you can write a check for and take home today, But people whine and cry about the price of new electric cars when they most likely would never buy a new car! yet automakers don't seem to have a problem selling cars that cost way more then what vehicles like the Leaf are selling for, so someone will buy them, just not the people who are crying about how much they cost.

[Frank Lee]

Nanas not repairable?

[Ryland]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Nanas not repairable?

From what I've read about them they tend to have alot of parts that snap, glue and get welded together instead of using fasteners as it saves on time tightening screws and bolts and saves the cost of the screws and bolts.
Altho that is getting more and more common on other cars as well.

[Daox]

Sounds easy enough to repair, just glue it back together!

[Ryland]

Here is another article on the energy that goes in to producing gasoline.

The Big Oil Electricity Conspiracy

[The Rooster]

Originally Posted by Ryland

Can automakers build a gas car that they can sell for $5,000? Not unless you want a Tata that is not designed to be repaired and can't be sold in the US.
Used electric car prices are already dropping, Toyota Rav-4 EV's that were selling for $45,000 now have Buy It Now prices on Ebay for $25,000, a Solectra Chevy E-10 truck is on there for $8,000 where I have seen them sell for $20,000-$25,000 in the past.
My point is, if you want an electric car there are factory built ones that you can write a check for and take home today, But people whine and cry about the price of new electric cars when they most likely would never buy a new car! yet automakers don't seem to have a problem selling cars that cost way more then what vehicles like the Leaf are selling for, so someone will buy them, just not the people who are crying about how much they cost.

Well, considering most cheap, short range, low speed ev's are about as refined, well equiped and useful as a Tata, I'd say the $5k comparison is fair enough. Even though a brand new GEM that only goes 35 miles and 25 mph, which is significatly less capaple than a Tata, costs closer to 8k than 5k. Dosen't matter though, because I need a long range ev if I were to use one at all.

The Nissan Leaf (100 mile range) Rav4 ev (100-120mile range) and the S10(60 miles?) aren't suitable for my needs.

I'd want an ev with an advertised range of about 175mi to feel comfortable driving it the 110 miles that I do every day, considering weather, hills and battery degredation over time. Not even the $25k Aptera does that.

I'd very much buy a new car if it made any sense. But brand new high fuel efficiency cars are in the 12-20k price range and none hit 50 mpg. Cars like the Fiesta, Sonata and Smart do 40-41mpg, which is less than 10 mpg more than my current car. The timeframe to make up the cost difference in the form of fuel saved is too long to bother, especially considering interest payments.

Options for used, high mpg cars are pretty limited as the old Geo's, CRX hf's and Civic VX's (50ish mpg examples) are as old or older than my current car, high mileage and/or beat up. Anything worth owning is somewhat expensive ($2k to $4k) anyway and gets you thinking about much newer 1st Gen Honda Insights, which may cost twice as much, but can do 80mpg, so can pay for themselves more rapidly.

Oops, got a little off subject...Sorta...Anyway;

EV's that can do what I need are north of $40k and make absolutely no financial sense at all. Best car available that I can think of would be a 1st gen Honda Insight, which I'm coming closer and closer to actually shopping for. (Once I "start" shopping, that's it, deal may as well be done)

No doubt electricity is cheaper than gas, but the cars that use electricity are so cost prohibitive that they make no sense...for my uses. If I lived in the city, I might buy a used GEM or something...or I'd just walk/bike/bus...etc.

Damn, the more I type, the more I realize that for people like me, that care only about saving money, EV's have no practical real world use. If you live close enough for a 35mile range EV to work, you can just walk/bike/bus. Any highway use and the cars become very expensive and still have very limited range anyway...and you can't use them for extended travel. Cars like the Chevy Volt...in theory...appeal to me greatly...but they would need to be more like $18k, not $40k.