Shocker: GM exec admits they ignored consumers' demands for efficiency

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

GM did a fairly decent job with their 3800/large sedan/a/t combo. I've long wanted to see one with a 5-speed and a few other modest unobtrusive ecomods.

I've long maintained that GM ENGINEERING knows what it takes to extract maximum fe. They are on the leading edge of much tech back in their R&D Department.

Too bad they don't have more influence on what gets produced. Once again, I point my bony finger at the idiots in the Marketing Department.

Yeah I can see your point there. But I like to think there waking up now, although it may be ten years too late. I think that's why we are seeing a change in the current "Best Car Wins" advertisements, and even the lawnmower commercial (ok, maybe the last one is not really fair, but if it's true and sells cars I doubt they care much) - Over time I have purchased many products that were better than the competition that did a better job of marketing. It does not seem fair many times, but it is legal. I once owned 3 Beta VCRs because at that time they had the best video/audio quality in the market. But due to Sony's poor marketing, JVC won with VHS VCRs etc... I could site many examples.

[Frank Lee]

Honda Big Red three-wheeler hardtail with "suspension" forks consisting of bronze-bushed lowers riding on chromed steel downtubes... NO LUBRICATION. Yup- dry. Think of how many oscillations a fork goes through, then think of designing DRY fork sliders. The obvious outcome: prematurely worn out AND eventually seized. Sheesh, I knew better than to do something like that when I was 8 years old.

[GOD]

Originally Posted by Jammer

...Maybe I will change my handle to "GOD"...

Not on my watch

[Silveredwings]

The report projects that profits for Ford, GM and Chrysler would increase by a combined total of $3 billion a year from selling more-efficient vehicles, while Japanese auto companies' collective profits from U.S. sales would rise by just $800 million a year. That's because the Japanese already sell fairly efficient autos and wouldn't see as much of a sales volume gain as would the U.S. automakers.

So there must have been a clear reason why GM management chose to leave that much money on the table.

It's almost as if the big 3's stocks were largely owned by big oil. Oh wait...

And why did McManus suddenly 'come clean?' Did his retainer run out?

I can also see why companies like Toyota opposed raising CAFE standards. It would reduce a large competitive advantage they hold over Detroit.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by god

not on my watch

lol

Good one.

[MadisonMPG]

Originally Posted by Christ

Considering that the only judging factor here is what you post, and you seldom post little more than an opinion, without any indication that you have a clue, I suggested that before you go talking about how sad one company is for their involvement in other markets, you do a little research into that company's historic profile.

If you took offense to it, that's your problem. I'll keep mental note that you take offense to... everything. After the few PM's I've received from you (unsolicited each time), I just don't feel as though we're going to be able to get along. As such, I will simply ignore your input, and ask that you do the same.

Good day.

I think me and you have had this same discussion, although now I realize where you were coming from and we can now talk again.

[user removed]

Old Man Honda made piston rings before WW2.

Out of the rubble of post war Japan he started making the vehicles that would bring Japan out of the devastation that was brought upon them by their arrogance and stupidity.

He built a small motorcycle that was a revelation to the world, and he focused on quality and reliability. He lsitened to his employees and incorporated thier ideas into his products. The relationshsip was one of mututal respect and pride in the quality of the finished product. Working for that old man was a priviledge.

In the 60s he gradually expanded his basic transportation into an auto manufacturing industry, that by the early 70s was producing some of the most efficient and reliable cars on this planet.

My father averaged 39.5 MPG in a 77 Honda Accord that I bought totalled at a salvage auction. He drove up and down US 1 in the Florida Keys as a volunteer for the American Cancer Society. They paid him 39cents a mile and he got over 39 MPG, in 1978.

In the 50s GM owned the American auto industry, but their innovation was primarily focused on styling over substance. Innovation and attention to efficiency resulted in the Corvair, followed by the Vega. In the early 70s GM stated that it was impossible to build a car that got 40 MPG, only a few years before my father was driving his recycled Accord down one of the busiest two lane highways in the US getting damn near 40 MPG.

The giant GM conglomerate versus the little uneducated ex mechanic with a dream, who had to build his dream in the shambles of his native country, while the giant enjoyed the war time influx of capital the likes of which we will probably never see again.

Here comes the 50s innovation is the overhead valve engine, which dated back to before WW1 but was sold as a great design advance. Many of the planes and tanks in WW2 had much more advanced engines than the revelation small block Chevrolet engine, but the advertising blitz kept the faithful in line and they bought and bought the latest twist of the sheet metal benders to keep up with the neighbors.

In the 60S they started gluing in the windows and covering the sloppy workmanship with a chrome moulding. Who cared about the fact it rusted out in months, it looked so damn good. Why worry about paint quality, use lacquer, because it looked so damn good.

Meanwhile the conflict between union and management escalated with the quality and customer base paying the ultimate price. The arrogance of assuming the buyers loyalty would go on forever continued as labor cost skyrocketed in an orgy of spending and short sighted stupidity that ignored the most basic understanding of treating the customer as if he was the most important part of the equation.

Quality went from poor to abysmal. The techs working at the dealerships which sold GM cars were screwed by warranty labor rates that were less than 1/3 of what the customer paid. Poor designs meant engines falling apart in months and rust holes in the same period of time.

Japan had recovered from the devastation of WW2 and old man Honda was building the best cars on the planet. While GM was watching a failure rate of 80% on some of its engines in 100 k miles, people were driving those tiny little Honda imports 200k miles and more and they weren't even adding oil between changes.

Here comes OPEC with the embargo and gas prices skyrocket. Gas lines and odd even fill up days make mileage a premium. More Japanese car companies come on the scene with more small economical vehicles that just don't fall apart until they are decades old and with hundreds of thousands of miles.

The quality of American cars continues to decline until their huge market share evaporates.

Today 25 years later they are finally waking up to the facts that they have not tried to compete. The Unions are a figment of their long ago size and power. The war was lost by both sides, and the enemy of WW2 rose from the ashes of nuclear devastation and won the last battle. Japan was guided on this path by American industrialists who showed them how to do it right, while we quarreled and bickered amongst ourselves until our own citizens rejected our products.

Now in their final gasps of breath we keep them on some misguided life support subsidizing more of the same stupidity. The greatest country the world has ever witnessed is drowning in the abyss of the govt credit card gone wild. To big to fail. what a joke. We were beat by a tiny country that we annihilated in a conflict long ago, one the rose from the dust of the only atomic weapons ever dropped on human beings.

In all of this unbelievable stupidity we still argue about why.

I'll tell you why.

The customer is always right, even when he or she is wrong. Ultimately we will have to pay the price of our collective short sightedness.

regards
Mech

[Frank Lee]

Summa that right, summa it not.

The Americans didn't do EVERYTHING wrong, and the furreners didn't do EVERYTHING right.

But yeah, basically, the Americans thought customer loyalty to them would go on forever no matter how much they dropped the ball. Just like in politics, there's those 20%ers that will believe in the most idiotic of B.S., just because that's how they are.

The customer is always right, even when he or she is wrong. Ultimately we will have to pay the price of our collective short sightedness.

Now that is the basic nugget of wisdom. We can decry stupid things like Hummers and Expeditions and Armadas but if nobody wanted them and nobody bought them... nobody would build them.

Note... Armadas. And Sequoias and Tundras and whatever. Even Ridgelines. All these "superior" foreign companies building junk for us that is no more efficient than the domesstic product.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by rkcarguy

Honda's entire line of...well everything pretty much...has proven to be reliable and fuel efficient, from their lawn mowers to cars to outboard motors.

And let's not forget that Honda makes a profit on those lines, and they keep gaining market share. If you had money to invest, would you rather buy stock in GM, or Honda? As a shareholder, I don't really care if they decide to make engines for model airplanes, or gas-powered vibrators, as long as they can make a profit.

[Christ]

Mech -

I'm sorry, I just couldn't read through all that. Literally, my eyes are burning.