Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-08-2009, 09:34 PM   #11 (permalink)
Driving the TurboWeasel
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Steuben County, NY
Posts: 459
Thanks: 14
Thanked 18 Times in 17 Posts
A poor man's way of testing this would be to remove your t-stat, blocking off half the radiator via removable aero mods (think cardboard and masking tape), and driving a test loop doing some A-B-A testing. B would be normal. Make sure to monitor coolant temperatures.

__________________
2012 Chevrolet Cruze Eco 6MT
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-08-2009, 10:39 PM   #12 (permalink)
Moderate your Moderation.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Troy, Pa.
Posts: 8,919

Pasta - '96 Volkswagen Passat TDi
90 day: 45.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,369
Thanked 430 Times in 353 Posts
Hell, I was just going to remove the T-stat after getting a timed baseline for how long it took to idle up to temp, then start periodically putting in smaller radiators until either I started overheating under my normal driving, or I met the time goal.

In Civics, the half sized radiator works every bit as good as the full sized, but I've seen reports of faster warm-up times, partially due to lowered cooling capacity, but also partially due to less coolant to heat up/cool down for each cycle.
__________________
"¿ʞɐǝɹɟ ɐ ǝɹ,noʎ uǝɥʍ 'ʇı ʇ,usı 'ʎlǝuol s,ʇı"

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 11:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,762

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,585
Thanked 3,555 Times in 2,218 Posts
Quote:
T-stats represent a fairly large restriction to flow, even when open fully, which loads the water pump.
I believe this whole premise to be incorrect.

When you reduce volume pumped by restriction, the load on the pump gets EASIER, not harder.

Example? Take a hairdryer and turn it on. Note the speed. Now block the flow completely. It speeds up! It wouldn't speed up unless the load was reduced.
__________________



Last edited by Frank Lee; 10-08-2009 at 11:35 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 11:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
Moderate your Moderation.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Troy, Pa.
Posts: 8,919

Pasta - '96 Volkswagen Passat TDi
90 day: 45.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,369
Thanked 430 Times in 353 Posts
The thermostat only blocks flow to the radiator. It comes after the pump, and after the flow through the engine block. If the thermostat is closed, the coolant recircs through the block, then back through the water pump.

If the thermostat is open, the coolant proceeds through the water pump, through the block, through the thermostat, then into the radiator, and back to the water pump.

Because the circuit is built the way it is, you're looking at it backwards. The thermostat is a restriction to pressurized hot fluid, and doesn't contact the cooled fluid returning from the radiator to the water pump.

Therefore, instead of choking off the input of the hair dryer, as you suggested, you'd have to test the theory by blocking the output of the dryer (or box fan), which does actually place a load on it, because it's trying to compress a fluid. (Air, in this case.)
__________________
"¿ʞɐǝɹɟ ɐ ǝɹ,noʎ uǝɥʍ 'ʇı ʇ,usı 'ʎlǝuol s,ʇı"

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 12:03 AM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 877
Thanked 2,024 Times in 1,304 Posts
An adjustable radiator or grille block that maintained the coolant temperature of the coolant exiting the radiator at the same level it was in summer would help a lot with improving mileage in the winter.

regards
Mech
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 12:08 AM   #16 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,762

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,585
Thanked 3,555 Times in 2,218 Posts
Yeah, block the output. I didn't specify inlet or outlet. It doesn't matter. Grab that hairdryer and do it. Turn the heat off if you can; it gets damn hot!
__________________


  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 12:14 AM   #17 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 877
Thanked 2,024 Times in 1,304 Posts
I remember Basjoos has a light that tells him the electric cooling fan is running. If it runs often he opens his adjustable air inlet.

With that kind of aero and engine compartment sealing he is getting hot coolant outflow and warm air intake, without anything else.

regards
Mech
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 12:17 AM   #18 (permalink)
Moderate your Moderation.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Troy, Pa.
Posts: 8,919

Pasta - '96 Volkswagen Passat TDi
90 day: 45.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,369
Thanked 430 Times in 353 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
Yeah, block the output. I didn't specify inlet or outlet. It doesn't matter. Grab that hairdryer and do it. Turn the heat off if you can; it gets damn hot!
K, so without a thermostat, I'd be able to use a smaller radiator, since there would still be more flow, regardless of whether it's loading the water pump or not. Smaller radiator = less fluid to pump, which DOES partially unload the water pump, and less weight (granted, miniscule amount) that the engine has to propel when moving the vehicle, plus another measure of aero benefit.

Granted, all miniscule compared to leaving the t-stat in, but still gains to be had. On top of all that, no worrying about the Tstat failing closed. Not supposed to happen, but it does.
__________________
"¿ʞɐǝɹɟ ɐ ǝɹ,noʎ uǝɥʍ 'ʇı ʇ,usı 'ʎlǝuol s,ʇı"

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 12:32 AM   #19 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,762

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,585
Thanked 3,555 Times in 2,218 Posts
I've no problem with the 1/2 rad concept- a lil lighter, etc.

I don't think the pump will "see" any difference re: volume in the system. Forget about pump loading.

Thermostats regulate temp and improve warm-up times. I am not aware of any data that says they are the limiting factor in cooling system capacity. They rarely fail... or I'm just lucky? Bwaahahahaha!!! I don't see any benefits to disabling them.
__________________


  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 12:35 AM   #20 (permalink)
Moderate your Moderation.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Troy, Pa.
Posts: 8,919

Pasta - '96 Volkswagen Passat TDi
90 day: 45.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,369
Thanked 430 Times in 353 Posts
I've had two fail in my life. Thinking about it, I'm not really sure why I wanted to go with no Tstat. I don't think it had any premise based on real thought, rather than just going on a whim, saying (yup, I'd like to remove that thing).

I guess goals don't really need a reason, just an end and a means, right?

__________________
"¿ʞɐǝɹɟ ɐ ǝɹ,noʎ uǝɥʍ 'ʇı ʇ,usı 'ʎlǝuol s,ʇı"

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
More smaller batteries vs. Less bigger batteries GooberPea Motorcycles / Scooters 34 02-04-2014 03:56 PM
New Electric Motor is 50% Smaller but has 2x More Torque Russ Fossil Fuel Free 10 09-19-2009 01:42 PM
Wheels (Smaller is better) The Atomic Ass EcoModding Central 28 08-06-2009 11:31 AM
Smaller Fuel Tank steensn EcoModding Central 5 07-11-2008 02:09 PM
Ecomodding Smaller Radiator of Choice? XFi EcoModding Central 2 01-22-2008 05:53 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com