Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-26-2009, 03:18 AM   This thread is in the EcoModder Project Library | #1 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,864

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Saturn SW2 Wagon
Team Saturn
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 439
Thanked 527 Times in 354 Posts
Spring mounted Grill Block

Hello -

(A moment of silence, please. Many zip ties were sacrificed to make this possible)

Like many of you, my car has a passive (doesn't move) grill block. That means it's a compromise between city and freeway driving. I also have an HAI, a Hot-Air-Intake. At city speeds this gets nice and toasty warm, but at highway speeds it typically gets cooler because of the increased air flow into the engine compartment. An active grill block could deal with this problem, but I don't want to spend a lot of time and effort on a control system that has a higher likelihood of failure. The main problem is I want an open grill block at city speeds and a "closed" grill block at freeway speeds. Right now I am trying this :


At city speeds, the coroplast "wing" stays in place. It is hinged in two places on the bottom and attached to the license plate via springs at the top. At highway speeds, these springs should stretch and close the lower radiator cooling vent. These springs are "C-7" springs that I got from OSH.



Here is a front view. The red lines show where the hinges are underneath the coroplast flap.



Close-up of the hinge. There are no holes drilled into the car. The diamond-grill is a rain gutter leaf protector that I used to slightly reduce the amount of air coming into the lower radiator cooling vent.



Close-up of springs.



Side view showing downward angle of flap. Sides of flap also bend down on the ends because the original coroplast had a bend to it. If you look closely, you will see a square piece of "packing sponge" that I am using to modulate the amount of air that gets into the upper cooling vent. As the weather heats up, that will probably be removed.

.........

A while back, Frank Lee pointed out that this could suffer from "wing flapping", but I think I have accidently used the right springs for the job. If they were too strong I am sure that there would be flapping. I need to have someone watch my car on the freeway, but I haven't gotten around to that yet. I keep waiting for a shiny-butt gas truck, but they seem to be hiding from me.

When I originally used it, I had a grill block (pipe insulation) on the upper radiator cooling vent. Everything was fine when I was driving on the city streets. When I got on the freeway, IAT and coolant temperatures immediately started to rise and wouldn't go down. I see this as proof that I am getting a "dynamic" grill block effect on the highway. I pulled off the freeway and removed the upper grill block. This is a compromise. Normally you want to have the grill block on the upper cooling vent, and the opening in the lower cooling vent. I am not too worried about this compromise because my car has the "below headlight" cooling vent style of the late 1980's/early 1990's.

In this current configuration, I am seeing hotter IAT temps at freeway speed, at least 10+ degrees F more than I used to see. My coolant temperature also is up from 190 to 193+ degrees F, which I can live with. I think that as the weather warms up, I will need to keep tweaking it to keep that car's cooling happy. But, it's zip tie mounted and therefore 100% removeable, so I have no worries.


CarloSW2

.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	angle_view.c10.jpg
Views:	919
Size:	63.9 KB
ID:	3060   Click image for larger version

Name:	front_view.c05.jpg
Views:	918
Size:	75.2 KB
ID:	3061   Click image for larger version

Name:	hinge.c10.jpg
Views:	915
Size:	80.1 KB
ID:	3062   Click image for larger version

Name:	license_springs.jpg
Views:	918
Size:	74.4 KB
ID:	3063   Click image for larger version

Name:	side_view.jpg
Views:	912
Size:	92.6 KB
ID:	3064  

__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 03-26-2009, 03:36 AM   #2 (permalink)
Dartmouth 2010
 
SVOboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hanover, NH
Posts: 6,427

Vegan Powa! - '91 Honda CRX DX
Team Honda
90 day: 66.52 mpg (US)
Thanks: 92
Thanked 113 Times in 82 Posts
Send a message via AIM to SVOboy Send a message via MSN to SVOboy Send a message via Yahoo to SVOboy
Now have someone jog in front of the car on the highway and take pictures!

Really though, how will you know if it's working?
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 10:34 AM   #3 (permalink)
aero guerrilla
 
Piwoslaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 3,524

Svietlana - '05 Peugeot 307 SW
Diesel
90 day: 54.1 mpg (US)

Theodor - '01 Peugeot 106
90 day: 46.17 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,035
Thanked 618 Times in 389 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVOboy View Post
Really though, how will you know if it's working?
Maybe some kind of one-way locking mechanism: once it lowers it stays there. Then you stop and see how far it closed at what speed and unlock it for another test. Of course, this locking device would be only be for testing.
Hmm, another option is to mount a pen on it and have and paper on the recieving end: if the wing closes, the pen makes a dot.
Then there's driving with a camera stuck to your bumper.

But the idea is simple, workable, and just plain AWSOME !!!!
__________________
e·co·mod·ding: the art of turning vehicles into what they should be

What matters is where you're going, not how fast.

"... we humans tend to screw up everything that's good enough as it is...or everything that we're attracted to, we love to go and defile it." - Chris Cornell

Piwoslaw's Peugeot 307sw modding thread


  Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 01:59 PM   #4 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
wagonman76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Northwest Lower Michigan
Posts: 1,006

Red Car - '89 Chevrolet Celebrity CL 4 door
Team Chevy
90 day: 36.47 mpg (US)

Winter Wagon - '89 Pontiac 6000 LE Wagon
90 day: 28.26 mpg (US)
Thanks: 8
Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts
You could tape some light gauge wire (light enough to not hinder the movement of the grille block, like maybe thin am/fm antenna wire) to both the spoiler and the grille block. Make sure the wires will easily touch when the grille block is closed. Maybe even use a small spring on one of the wires and tape the spring to the spoiler, like what is in the end of a battery case, that way the grille block won't have to be firmly bottomed out. Then run the wires to your dash, and connect them with an LED and appropriate size battery. The LED will come on when the grille block is closed.
__________________

Winter daily driver, parked most days right now


Summer daily driver
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 03:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,864

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Saturn SW2 Wagon
Team Saturn
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 439
Thanked 527 Times in 354 Posts
Hello -

Ok, you are giving me ideas. I do have a wireless mini-cam I can mount in the fog-light area on the side. I will see if I can make this work for definitive proof.

CarloSW2
__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 05:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 257

Bio Deezler (sold) - '03 Volkswagen Jetta GLS TDI
90 day: 50.78 mpg (US)

The Beast. - '03 GMC Sierra 2500HD SLT
90 day: 12.86 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 27 Times in 18 Posts
nice!

Does it really function as a full grill block though? Looks like it would block most of the lower grill, but then also extend below the bumper and perhaps create unnecessary drag there?

maybe you could take a picture while holding it in the "on" or down position so we can see what it does in action.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 05:51 PM   #7 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,864

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Saturn SW2 Wagon
Team Saturn
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 439
Thanked 527 Times in 354 Posts
Deezler -

Good point. I will take a picture and post it later tonight ...

[time passes]

Here it is :





It does extend below the based of the lower intake vent. This is also maximum extension. I think I am ok because I think the rest of the "undercarriage" (old timey word) is lower :



I won't change it until I know how much it moves.

Tonight on the freeway my IAT stayed a toasty 145 degrees F while my coolant stayed at ~195 degrees F. In the past on a night like this I would expect sub-130 IAT and 190 coolant temps, so I am pleased with what I am seeing.

CarloSW2

.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	sw2_side_compare.c16.jpg
Views:	828
Size:	68.7 KB
ID:	3068   Click image for larger version

Name:	front_hinge_down.c15.jpg
Views:	839
Size:	78.9 KB
ID:	3069   Click image for larger version

Name:	side_hinge_down.c15.jpg
Views:	831
Size:	65.8 KB
ID:	3070  
__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society

Last edited by cfg83; 03-27-2009 at 03:42 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 04:57 AM   #8 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,864

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Saturn SW2 Wagon
Team Saturn
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 439
Thanked 527 Times in 354 Posts
Hello -

Ok, I set up a webcam on the car :




This led to these pictures :


Notice the initial location of the spring and the license plate



As you can see in the picture, the spring is already very stretched out. Also, the license plate is "part" of the spring mechanism. It is only attached at the top, so it is being pulled in.



Here the spring is super-stretched out and the license plate cannot be seen.

Notes :

- The grill block works. It does "bounce" a little bit, but mostly in transition, not at steady-state speeds.

- The spring is too weak. I would rather have the spring hold it's own until the car gets over 40 MPH. This, however, will increase the risk of "bouncing" when the spring fights back.

- The license plate may need to be bolstered. I don't mind the license plate also "closing" the middle-section of the upper grill block, but I do want it to be more secure. There are only two plastic snap-in plugs at the moment.

- I need to make a YouTube of it in action. The first AVI I did was 900 MB, and I didn't get it with audio of me stating the MPH, so it was not postable.

Basically, it just needs tuning.

Me happy. Again.

CarloSW2

.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	dgb_00.webcam.b.jpg
Views:	821
Size:	95.3 KB
ID:	3137   Click image for larger version

Name:	dgb_01.stop.b.jpg
Views:	825
Size:	44.8 KB
ID:	3138   Click image for larger version

Name:	dgb_02.40MPH.b.jpg
Views:	822
Size:	38.0 KB
ID:	3139   Click image for larger version

Name:	dgb_03.55MPH.b.jpg
Views:	826
Size:	34.0 KB
ID:	3140   Click image for larger version

Name:	dgb_00.webcam.front.b.jpg
Views:	823
Size:	78.7 KB
ID:	3141  

__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society

Last edited by cfg83; 04-03-2009 at 03:08 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 09:48 AM   #9 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 10,760

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 58.68 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
90 day: 47.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,105
Thanked 2,252 Times in 1,359 Posts
Very nice! Glad to see it works.
__________________
Current project: Help me kill my alternator - it is stubborn and won't die
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 10:42 AM   #10 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 460

WonderWagon - '94 Ford Escort LX
Last 3: 51.52 mpg (US)

DaBluOne - '99 Ford Escort SE
90 day: 48.97 mpg (US)

DaRedOne - '99 Ford Escort ZX2 Hot
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfg83 View Post
- The grill block works. It does "bounce" a little bit, but mostly in transition, not at steady-state speeds.

- The spring is too weak. I would rather have the spring hold it's own until the car gets over 40 MPH. This, however, will increase the risk of "bouncing" when the spring fights back.
Go ahead and use a stronger spring but add magnets to reduce/eliminate bounce.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Permanent Aluminum Grill Block and Belly Pan Markmysite EcoModding Central 41 02-27-2014 10:22 PM
Lower Grill Block 2005 Honda Civic Arminius EcoModding Central 12 10-04-2011 01:31 AM
96 Geo Tracker Upper Grill Block alohaspirit Aerodynamics 7 03-22-2009 01:05 AM
Airdam and grill block on the Mirage BrianAbington Aerodynamics 5 10-15-2008 07:54 PM
96-00 Civic Upper Grill Block Impulse Aerodynamics 2 07-12-2008 04:09 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com