Stayed in an Earthship!

[syncro_user]

Jtbo, sounds like you know quite a lot about building standards in Finland. I am currently in the process of looking for my own place, either as a old building in need of work or as a tontti to develop in a low-cost, low-energy way. Do you have any useful links to places with some relevant information?

[jtbo]

Originally Posted by syncro_user

Jtbo, sounds like you know quite a lot about building standards in Finland. I am currently in the process of looking for my own place, either as a old building in need of work or as a tontti to develop in a low-cost, low-energy way. Do you have any useful links to places with some relevant information?

I know quite little, just some annoyances that I have come around which limit freedom

Anyway, first place to check is FINLEX ® - Ajantasainen lainsäädäntö: 5.2.1999/132

Second would be Suomen rakentamismryskokoelma - ymparisto.fi

Second one in english for those interested (sadly most interesting parts are not translated):
The National Building Code of Finland - ymparisto.fi

I did also search a bit about eartship at finland and found that Motiva has been asked is it possible to build such in finland, even in Norway there has been one build around 2009 (why no mention on website? What might been different in that one would be interesting), Motiva's statement was that it should be studied before it could be said if such could be built here or not, which means someone should be a pioneer and pay from testing, fight the bureaucrats to be able to open that path for others. There are several requirements which do require enough creditable source to say that this is ok until such can be allowed, one has to pay to engineering office and there might be some testing needed to be done at VTT laboratories or similar to get permission.

My pet hates in this place, anything that is innovative or just different must go trough heavy and expensive process to be approved in name of safety or whatever to be allowed to be built, you can't do no longer anything small business, you need to make living and lot of profit with what ever you are doing, everywhere you need really good funding to be able to push your new or different trough that barrier.

So we are ending up with few big standard ways.

For example gravity based ventilation, you can get it to new house too, but it requires few years worth of paperwork and will cost probably more than machine operated ventilation + all the electricity it uses in a lifetime to get such approved, well that is again from my memory, don't ever trust my memory about these things, my memory has been shot quite many years and I may remember something 100% in my mind but later find out remembering it completely opposite.

Easiest way to get around things is to get old house from area not part of any city limits, then it is much more free to build and probably it can take more than lifetime that anyone will check what one has done, illegal but from my understanding not very much punishable.

[shovel]

Originally Posted by Xist

I like the idea of an earthship and I would be interested in seeing one here in the Phoenix area, but I would like a concise explanation of the systems. I found that website to be difficult to read.

There are quite a lot of these homes up in the NorthEast corner of AZ, I've painted a couple a dozen years ago (as barter for a couple burning man tickets) - they're cool, but you'll never see one in town because they cannot be made to meet city building code.

I understand the limitations on innovation posed by building code, but it really does keep us safe from the hazards which come from letting poorly educated or inconsiderate individuals just build whatever they want. None of us wants our house burned down or our lives threatened by a death trap our neighbors built.

[Xist]

Personally, I do not want to live in a death trap.

I explained the idea of an earthship to my girlfriend. I thought that she would love the idea because she is a crazy hippie and I told her that it did not need air conditioning. She said that she would never visit me because she needed air conditioning.

Did I describe it poorly or does she just not speak Xist?

[shovel]

Originally Posted by Xist

Personally, I do not want to live in a death trap.

I explained the idea of an earthship to my girlfriend. I thought that she would love the idea because she is a crazy hippie and I told her that it did not need air conditioning. She said that she would never visit me because she needed air conditioning.

Did I describe it poorly or does she just not speak Xist?

I don't think they are necessarily death traps, only that the limitations imposed by standardized building code - while they chill innovation - also protect us from those who would build a four story house out of Aquafina bottles and toilet tissue only to have it catastrophically collapse at the cost of property or human lives. Less dramatic but of no less importance are effects like ventilation to limit exposure to combustion byproducts when heating or cooking, exit opportunities and rescue personnel safety in the event of fire, and other such considerations that a professional architect would employ as a matter of routine but may not even be considered by an amateur builder high on self-confidence and low on experience.

I trust most peoples' sensibilities in building a nest, and I'm certain most currently occupied earthships are as safe as they need to be for the occupants who build them - after all, we exist today after countless generations before us built their own nests and succeeded to thrive.

Air conditioning is a funny thing, last Wednesday during midday, Phoenecians pumped 13,800,000,000 watts of electrical energy into town - much of it in the pursuit of cooler air. But an air conditioner doesn't create cold, it just moves energy from inside the room to outside the room - the net result is almost fourteen billion watts of energy distributed around sixteen thousand square miles, or about 575 space heaters per square mile worth of heat added to an already hot desert. That doesn't take into account the 6 million gallons of gasoline we burned - contributing the equivalent of another 61 space heaters per square mile worth of thermal energy to the city - nor the black pavement absorbing solar radiation which would naturally be reflected by lighter colored rocks and plants - so the desert is simply less hot outside of town.

Phoenix was settled without a/c, and it was hot - but not as hot as today's local warming and houses built for heat pump efficiency rather than ecologic efficiency.