Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-05-2023, 12:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,267
Thanks: 24,392
Thanked 7,360 Times in 4,760 Posts
'no more'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase View Post
See. No more air curtains
Are we sure?
The single, central grille opening would be lower drag than a grille opening, plus side inlets. That's 2013, C6-R, Corvette Racing Team technology.
And the single inlet can be internally branched and ducted for battery cooling, air conditioning, plus split to each side for air curtains, AND it would be sourced with higher static pressure than originally found on the sides of the fascia. Also 2013 GM aero technology!

__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 09-05-2023, 04:06 PM   #12 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Phase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: oregon
Posts: 1,121

Black Bullet - '19 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid Blue
Thanks: 1
Thanked 592 Times in 470 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
Are we sure?
The single, central grille opening would be lower drag than a grille opening, plus side inlets. That's 2013, C6-R, Corvette Racing Team technology.
And the single inlet can be internally branched and ducted for battery cooling, air conditioning, plus split to each side for air curtains, AND it would be sourced with higher static pressure than originally found on the sides of the fascia. Also 2013 GM aero technology!
Julian Edgar said the new Tesla doesn’t have air curtains before the sides are optimized to the point where it doesn’t need air curtains. He just made a comment about the new shape
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Phase For This Useful Post:
aerohead (09-07-2023)
Old 09-06-2023, 03:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
Mechanical engineer
 
Vekke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kitee (Finland)
Posts: 1,272

Siitin - '98 Seat Cordoba Vario
90 day: 58.56 mpg (US)

VW Lupo 3L --> 2L - '00 VolksWagen Lupo 3L
Diesel
90 day: 104.94 mpg (US)

A8 luxury fuel sipper - '97 Audi A8 1.2 TDI 6 speed manual
90 day: 64.64 mpg (US)

Audi A4B6 Avant Niistäjä - '02 Audi A4b6 1.9tdi 96kW 3L
90 day: 54.57 mpg (US)

Tourekki - '04 VW Touareg 2.5TDI R5 6 speed manual
90 day: 32.98 mpg (US)

A2 1.4TDI - '03 Audi A2 1.4 TDI
90 day: 45.68 mpg (US)

A2 1.4 LPG - '02 Audi A2 1.4 (75hp)
90 day: 24.67 mpg (US)
Thanks: 270
Thanked 841 Times in 414 Posts
Somewhere was said its 20mm lower, but haven't found proof of that. As specs are more rumours than clear data sheet.

I haven't seen inside front wheel wells to verify is there outlet or not. To cut parts and processes they might be behind the bumber...
__________________


https://www.linkedin.com/in/vesatiainen/

Vesa Tiainen innovation engineer and automotive enthusiast
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Vekke For This Useful Post:
aerohead (09-07-2023)
Old 09-07-2023, 12:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,267
Thanks: 24,392
Thanked 7,360 Times in 4,760 Posts
'Julian'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase View Post
Julian Edgar said the new Tesla doesn’t have air curtains before the sides are optimized to the point where it doesn’t need air curtains. He just made a comment about the new shape
He may be correct.
There's an Indian website which claims that the Highland does have them.
I can't find an image from behind the car looking forwards, where we might get a glimpse of any front fascia, trailing-edge-to- wheelhouse ducting which would inform us.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2023, 02:11 PM   #15 (permalink)
Mechanical engineer
 
Vekke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kitee (Finland)
Posts: 1,272

Siitin - '98 Seat Cordoba Vario
90 day: 58.56 mpg (US)

VW Lupo 3L --> 2L - '00 VolksWagen Lupo 3L
Diesel
90 day: 104.94 mpg (US)

A8 luxury fuel sipper - '97 Audi A8 1.2 TDI 6 speed manual
90 day: 64.64 mpg (US)

Audi A4B6 Avant Niistäjä - '02 Audi A4b6 1.9tdi 96kW 3L
90 day: 54.57 mpg (US)

Tourekki - '04 VW Touareg 2.5TDI R5 6 speed manual
90 day: 32.98 mpg (US)

A2 1.4TDI - '03 Audi A2 1.4 TDI
90 day: 45.68 mpg (US)

A2 1.4 LPG - '02 Audi A2 1.4 (75hp)
90 day: 24.67 mpg (US)
Thanks: 270
Thanked 841 Times in 414 Posts
Today had a Gigafactory Berlin factory tour and there was new model 3 higland there on the yard

Air curtains are still there

Behind the bumber and air inlet at the front bumber air intake hole corners

https://youtu.be/y5FSD3wxUdg?si=mUDzkXkjhPzwPMtm
__________________


https://www.linkedin.com/in/vesatiainen/

Vesa Tiainen innovation engineer and automotive enthusiast
  Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Vekke For This Useful Post:
aerohead (12-02-2023), bwilson4web (12-02-2023), Piotrsko (12-02-2023)
Old 12-02-2023, 12:08 PM   #16 (permalink)
Engineering first
 
bwilson4web's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 843

17 i3-REx - '14 BMW i3-REx
Last 3: 45.67 mpg (US)

Blue Bob's - '19 Tesla Std Rng Plus
Thanks: 94
Thanked 248 Times in 157 Posts
I took one frame and visually enhanced to show the air curtain vent:

Thanks to @Vekke who made the video that included this frame.

I found one paper about air curtains:
Citation: Ferraris, A., Pinheiro, H., Airale, A., Carello, M. et al., "City Car Drag Reduction by means of Flow Control Devices," SAE Technical Paper 2020-36-0080, 2021, https://doi.org/10.4271/2020-36-0080.
Download Citation
At $35, I'm not sure I want to buy it.

I did find these YouTube videos that offers insights:
https://youtu.be/ptNnbB7R3SE?si=d9cApYGAvqu-_aSZ

https://youtu.be/mXh2zG4fpb0?si=TIJ22Cei9bNrHdh8

Do you have a concern with wheel well, air curtains?

The reason I ask is I bought a polyethylene piece to block for the front air curtain inlets on my Model 3. My primary plan is to make a conformal cover for the slot outside of the front air inlet. I had also thought about testing blocking of the air curtain slots. But my wheel covers significantly reduce the amount of air leaking in/out of the spokes.

Guess I need to do some tuff testing.

Bob Wilson
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	air_curtain.jpg
Views:	147
Size:	15.6 KB
ID:	34405  
__________________
2019 Tesla Model 3 Std. Range Plus - 215 mi EV
2017 BMW i3-REx - 106 mi EV, 88 mi mid-grade
Retired engineer, Huntsville, AL

Last edited by bwilson4web; 12-02-2023 at 12:43 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to bwilson4web For This Useful Post:
aerohead (12-02-2023), MetroMPG (05-03-2024), redpoint5 (05-02-2024)
Old 12-02-2023, 06:59 PM   #17 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Phase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: oregon
Posts: 1,121

Black Bullet - '19 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid Blue
Thanks: 1
Thanked 592 Times in 470 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vekke View Post
Today had a Gigafactory Berlin factory tour and there was new model 3 higland there on the yard

Air curtains are still there

Behind the bumber and air inlet at the front bumber air intake hole corners

https://youtu.be/y5FSD3wxUdg?si=mUDzkXkjhPzwPMtm
Very interesting. I wonder how those style air curtains are better than the old ones
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Phase For This Useful Post:
aerohead (03-11-2024)
Old 12-02-2023, 07:54 PM   #18 (permalink)
Engineering first
 
bwilson4web's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 843

17 i3-REx - '14 BMW i3-REx
Last 3: 45.67 mpg (US)

Blue Bob's - '19 Tesla Std Rng Plus
Thanks: 94
Thanked 248 Times in 157 Posts
Found:
Modifying the Aerodynamics of Your Road Car (SpeedPro series) Kindle Edition
by Julian Edgar
Nice read with a collection of SAE and other professional papers and experiments from his career. The Kindle version is quite readable but dog earring the pages ... still working on that.

It is helping me prioritize my next Tesla tuning efforts.

Bob Wilson
__________________
2019 Tesla Model 3 Std. Range Plus - 215 mi EV
2017 BMW i3-REx - 106 mi EV, 88 mi mid-grade
Retired engineer, Huntsville, AL
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2024, 04:53 AM   #19 (permalink)
Mechanical engineer
 
Vekke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kitee (Finland)
Posts: 1,272

Siitin - '98 Seat Cordoba Vario
90 day: 58.56 mpg (US)

VW Lupo 3L --> 2L - '00 VolksWagen Lupo 3L
Diesel
90 day: 104.94 mpg (US)

A8 luxury fuel sipper - '97 Audi A8 1.2 TDI 6 speed manual
90 day: 64.64 mpg (US)

Audi A4B6 Avant Niistäjä - '02 Audi A4b6 1.9tdi 96kW 3L
90 day: 54.57 mpg (US)

Tourekki - '04 VW Touareg 2.5TDI R5 6 speed manual
90 day: 32.98 mpg (US)

A2 1.4TDI - '03 Audi A2 1.4 TDI
90 day: 45.68 mpg (US)

A2 1.4 LPG - '02 Audi A2 1.4 (75hp)
90 day: 24.67 mpg (US)
Thanks: 270
Thanked 841 Times in 414 Posts
Some interesting engineering facts about the new tesla model 3 in this video:

__________________


https://www.linkedin.com/in/vesatiainen/

Vesa Tiainen innovation engineer and automotive enthusiast
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Vekke For This Useful Post:
aerohead (03-11-2024)
Old 03-11-2024, 11:55 AM   #20 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,267
Thanks: 24,392
Thanked 7,360 Times in 4,760 Posts
' how better '

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase View Post
Very interesting. I wonder how those style air curtains are better than the old ones
There's two things going on with the 'Highland.'
1) Having a single inlet is an aerodynamic advantage in it's own right.
2) And harvesting all the air, right at the forward stagnation point, allows a higher static pressure at the inlet, compared to the sides of the nose, where the air is already accelerated.
Professor Alberto Morelli spent a small fortune on this kind of research at Pininfarina's wind tunnel in 1976-1978, for the Cd 0.203, CNR, PF-1 research concept.
The Chevrolet Corvette racing team has also found it to be an aerodynamic advantage for both drag, and thermal management.

__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/

Last edited by aerohead; 03-11-2024 at 11:57 AM.. Reason: add data
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
Vekke (03-12-2024)
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com