Test drove an xA...meh...

[Formula413]

Took a Scion xA for a test drive yesterday. 2005, 5 speed manual. Here are my impressions.

Quality, fit and finish: The overall quality seemed very good. The interior looks nice. Nice seats. I don't mind the center mounted gauge cluster. Rear storage area is very small for a hatchback, smaller than many sedan's trunks I would say. Ergonomics was not a strong point for me. I felt the seating position was much too upright, and the steering wheel seemed too low, like I was reaching down for it rather than holding my arms straight out.

Drivetrain: The shifter has a nice feel and the clutch is easy to use. I haven't driven a stick in a while and had no trouble operating this one. The engine would take some getting used to for me. My Escort's 2 liter has some really good low end grunt for a small engine, compared to that this 1.5 liter VVT-i feels completely gutless, it seems to need to be wound out to get up and go. Winding it out is certainly not an issue however, the gearing is extremely short. I was out of first gear before I could blink, and was turning about 2K RPM at 40 mph.

Handling: This is a biggie for me. I like a car that feels really connected to the road. Good steering feedback, minimal understeer and minimal body roll are crucial. I am more than willing to trade some ride comfort to get these characteristics. Unfortunately the xA was lacking in these areas. The steering feedback was not very good, very little road feel, and a little too much power assist. It was also all too willing to lean into corners, and I felt more understeer than I would like. I had read glowing reviews of the handling and had high hopes, but it really didn't feel much different than a Camry.

Overall the car didn't make as good an impression on me as I was hoping for. I really wanted to like this car, mainly because of the excellent FE and the standard ABS. But the overall package just didn't work for me. Looks like I will be re-focus-ing my attention to a certain domestic compact car.

Mods: Is this the best forum for car reviews? Feel free to move this as you see fit.

You know you're an ecomodder if: You wake up at 3:30 am and can't fall back to sleep, and decide to go review cars on Ecomodder.com.

[NeilBlanchard]

Hi,

I think you are mostly correct: the low gearing is frustrating, and the small hatch storage is limiting. They could have put the structural floor of the hatch about 6-8 inches lower -- which would have about doubled the volume of the storage (because the bottom would be a lot wider than the top is), and this would have helped the aerodynamics under the back of the car, too.

I'm 6'-4" and I love the upright seating -- I get all the legroom I need in the front and the back. And my headroom is fine, as well. I think there is plenty of power -- it is not as much as my 2002 Focus ZX-5 (2.0L 5-speed manual), but I only got 26-32mpg in that car; which is pretty poor, I think. The Cd of the Focus hatchback is 0.36 (IIRC) vs the 0.31 of the xA.

I had horrible problems with the Focus ZX-5: a tie-rod end failed at ~32K, I had to replace the steering box because it leaked fluid (no replaceable seals, apparently?) -- this cost $750! Then there were the 7 locations all over the body where the paint was flaking off exposing the bare metal! And the clutch master cylinder was leaking fluid -- all of this with 50K miles on the car...

If I was looking at cars right now, I would get a Honda Fit, or wait little while and get the Scion iQ, or the new Honda Insight. And if I'm rich enough, I'd get the new Prius...

[Formula413]

Thanks for your insights on the Focus. That is not particularly encouraging, since the Focus has emerged as the clear front runner. Repair costs are not as large an issue for me since I do most of my own work, but that being said I don't want to have to put the car up on jackstands every weekend. My Escort loves to eat tie rod ends too, they seem to last about 2 years.

When it comes to car choices the big sticking points for me are good handling and price. Most of the options you mentioned would be more than I want to spend. The only other compact car I've driven that I liked was the Mazda3, which is mechanically very similar to a Focus. But my hangup with the 3 is that I would be taking a hit in fuel economy from my Escort. I would like to at least maintain the same FE or see an improvement. The Focus with a 5 speed has identical EPA ratings to my auto Escort.

[skyl4rk]

The Versa Base 1.6l has many of the same characteristics as the xA.

The gearing is too low.

The seats are not upright as in the xA but are not all that great, kind of soft and no support on the thighs.

It is a little top heavy and rolly at highway speeds. Otherwise it is comfortable, not sporty.

The gearbox has long throws, a shorter shifter would help.

Cd is 0.31.

I was hoping the Versa would be somewhat like the old Metro, but it is a little heavier and does not handle the same. Just doesn't have the fun driving feeling to it.

When I need new tires I will get 15" wheels and 75 or 80 aspect ratio tires for a big circumference. I am hoping that will move the sweet spot for rpm up above where it is now.

Safety seems to be good.

Compared to my old Toyota pickup, it is a luxury vehicle, even without cruise, air or radio. I like it for hypermiling on country roads.

[Daox]

I'd definitly take a look at a Fit. I was very impressed with them when I saw them at the auto show last year. I didn't get to drive one, but there are guys getting 60 mpg out of them.

[1337]

I know I play Mazda fanboy _way_ too often when giving car advice to ecomodders, but I would recommend a Mazda Protege5. The gearing isn't great, but you'll be turning 3000 rpm at 65 mph. That's definitely better than the Scion.

Also, you'll start out with a Cd of 0.32, which is significantly ahead of the Focus and just a hair behind the Scion.

The reliability is bulletproof. I've never had a problem with mine, and Consumer Reports gives the Protege great ratings in its reliability survey.

Best of all, the Protege is cheap. Scion might be a relatively new brand, but they're doing a great job with brand image. As a result, Scions depreciate very slowly. If you play with Kelley Blue Book (as I did when choosing a car to ecomod), you'll see that the Protege is significantly cheaper than an the same year of Scion xA/xB, Civic, and Corolla.

Oh, one last thing--the Protege isn't fast, but I drove a Fit and a Protege back to back once, and I prefer the Protege's sporty handling.

[Formula413]

Originally Posted by 1337

I know I play Mazda fanboy _way_ too often when giving car advice to ecomodders, but I would recommend a Mazda Protege5. The gearing isn't great, but you'll be turning 3000 rpm at 65 mph. That's definitely better than the Scion.

Also, you'll start out with a Cd of 0.32, which is significantly ahead of the Focus and just a hair behind the Scion.

The reliability is bulletproof. I've never had a problem with mine, and Consumer Reports gives the Protege great ratings in its reliability survey.

Best of all, the Protege is cheap. Scion might be a relatively new brand, but they're doing a great job with brand image. As a result, Scions depreciate very slowly. If you play with Kelley Blue Book (as I did when choosing a car to ecomod), you'll see that the Protege is significantly cheaper than an the same year of Scion xA/xB, Civic, and Corolla.

Oh, one last thing--the Protege isn't fast, but I drove a Fit and a Protege back to back once, and I prefer the Protege's sporty handling.

Well, the last year for the Protege5 was 2003. That means I'd be starting with a six year old car. I would prefer, and can afford, something newer. I'm looking to spend roughly $10-12K. The Protege was of course replaced by the Mazda3, which I love, but it would force me to take a little bit of a hit in fuel economy, because of it's 2.3 liter engine and slightly higher curb weight than most compacts. That being said, it's not exactly a Hummer either. I think it's going to come down to that and the 05-07 Focus ZX5 or wagon. I'm really looking forward to having a slick handling car and a stick shift.

P.S. - There is no such thing as being too much of a Mazda fanboy, they make some great cars. Zoom-zoom. It really is more than just a marketing slogan.