Thinking about a Gen1 HCH
 

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Okay y'all, I need opinions about this car. I'm seriously considering one for many reason, which are:

- Family car. I will be married in less than a year, and need a nicer car than the Ecoscort for the Mrs. Parker lol. We plan on starting a family in a couple years, so that cuts out all the coupes from my list (need a 4-door sedan). Which include the Insight, CRX, VX...

- Great fuel economy. Hands down, this car will get better FE than my modified ZX2. I have read ~70 mpg while cruising, which will only get better with ecomods!

- It is newer than my car and a good bit nicer interior wise, with more room.

- I don't mind working on the car to keep it in good running order. I like the hybrid IMA system, but what I really like is that the car can be driven if the IMA quits working. This is a big plus over the Prius.

Any constructive criticism is welcome :) Tell me all the good, bad and ugly you know about the car. And I have not decided between a manual or CVT... I've read that all G1 HCH have lean burn. Truth or no?

IIRC the HCH's all have the hybrid battery at the back of the rear seats so those do not fold and the boot space is compromised.

I turned away from the (newer) HCHs and bought an Insight. I carried a bed, a tree lately, a big drawer cabinet, a cubic meter of luggage (part of it in a rooftop box) together with the family, etc.
None of that would have fitted in any HCH.

If you're wanting a car to tinker with, the Civic would be a good one. Its quite capable of great mileage especially in 5mt trim. If you're looking for a reliable car that gets good mileage pretty much no matter what (or who drives it), go with the Prius. The batteries just last, they don't have anywhere near the issues that that generation Civic has. I've owned two 04 Prius, and an 03 Civic (non hybrid, but same suspension, etc as the hybrid). The Civic needed a ton more work done to it vs the two Prius which I've virtually had to do nothing to.

That being said, I still own my 2nd Prius. Its my wife's car and she loves it. But, I always have my eye out (and a craigslist email notification setup) for a deal on a 1st gen 5mt Civic hybrid because I think it would be a really fun car to tinker with. The Civic handles much better than the Prius and that made it feel more fun to drive.

Rear footroom/legroom in a Civic is pretty minimal (as in nearly non-existent). Would there be enough room for a baby carrier?

I have put car seats in the back of my Civic just fine. It even has anchors.

I would definitely recommend a Prius over a HCH1. Especially if you plan on starting a family. I have worked on several HCH1's and yes, the leg room is very limited in the back. The Prius on the other hand is a different story. Lots of leg room, nice interior, batteries last forever, very low maintenance. Once you have kids, do you really think you will have time to be messing with the car all the time? Trust me on this. You won't get better mileage in a Prius than a civic, but it will be a lot more convenient in the long run.

Kids xor free time
 

My kids are 8 and 6 years old and finally keep themselves busy a bit more, but we used to count our free time in minutes, not hours.
Once they were in bed and the disaster areas were cleared we just dropped on the couch to watch TV, unable to find the energy for anything else.
It doesn't help that my son has Asperger's and my daughter is overly active and vocal.

We manage and things are improving bit by bit.
What remains is a giant backlog of things to do, any modding and forum activity has to be weighed against the everlasting pile of useful hand binders.
It is the one step at at time approach, and allowing yourself to be satisfied with that step instead of feeling guilty by looking at the mountain ahead.

But - I am happy to have my kids, wouldn't trade them for gold, not even for a Tesla model S 60. (I know, don't tempt me!)
- The washing machine does not have a spotless reputation (Alphons, age 3, after I repaired our ageing washing machine with a big struggle)
- (reciting the Greek alphabet backwards while getting changed - Alphons, age 5)
- Daddy, can you please turn your computer my way so I can see the (screensaver) photos while I'm eating my custard? (Dina, age 2)
- 101 is a prime number (Dina, age 5)
They are special. That's not just my pride as a dad, I tell you.

But indeed, if you plan to have kids plan to save time on anything else.

I love Hondas, but I'd get a Prius over a Honda hybrid. Unless it's a 1st gen manual Insight!

For the same money, yes. But there's no such thing.

What stings me is that the Prius in the wild does not match its EPA numbers, while the Insight does. In practice the Insight matches the 2nd gen Prius and is only marginally thirstier than the 3rd gen, nowhere near the 20% the EPA numbers suggest.
Then there is the handling... the Insight feels more responsive and lists less in corners. Drivers car versus comfort.

All in all both the Insight and the Prius are very good cars. If you can bear them.

Baby Diesel should buy neither.
Buy a manual Fit (Jazz) instead.
A hypermiler can match or even surpass hybrid economy with those (see PaleMelanesian's fuel log!), they are cheaper anyway, but most of all the seats and roof are higher so it is much easier to fix and remove kid seats and their occupants.
Your back will be thankful.

The boot is large for a hatch and has a practical shape. Then there is the extra room under the rear bench; the floor runs flat to the rear as the fuel tank is under the front seats, so you can put 2 large bags there.
Or flip the bench up to move your 60" flatscreen or a pair of mountain bikes.

I would have bought a Fit Hybrid if the dealership had matched my reasonable bid. They did not and I followed up on an Insight that was ridiculously low priced, but at a Honda dealer so I had to assume they were serious. I own it now.

Anyway... get a Fit! :)

Here's my advice if you go with a HCH 1 (mine currently has 219,000 miles on it and my lifetime average is around 60mpg).

All models except those sold in California have lean burn. Easiest way I know to tell the difference: there should be a sticker on the driver side rear door window. If it says "ULEV" it is lean burn. If it says "SULEV" it is not.

Get a manual. The CVT in the HCH1 is very very bad and expensive to repair.

You want either an '03 or an '04. With these two model years it is easy to wire an on/off switch to the clutch interlock switch which allows you to accelerate without using the electric motor (good for saving the battery and/or if you have a bad battery). For whatever reason this doesn't work on the '05.

I would also warn you that the hybrid battery will go bad (if you happen to find one that isn't already. They are pretty old at this point) so be prepared to refurbish/replace or do what I've done for the last few years, use it only for autostop and accelerate using only the ICE.