VW ID.4 Revealed - Reservations Open

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

I agree it takes a specific amount of energy to accelerate a specific mass to a specific speed, but wouldn't doing it slowly be covering a greater distance using the same amount of energy? Also the longer you are at the higher speed the longer you have greater aero drag?

Sounds like a calculus problem, area under a curve; but that's above my pay grade IQ.

Hitting the greens as they turn is called 'riding the green wave'. Nothing irritates my son as much as the wave rolling toward us instead of away.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

I agree it takes a specific amount of energy to accelerate a specific mass to a specific speed, but wouldn't doing it slowly be covering a greater distance using the same amount of energy? Also the longer you are at the higher speed the longer you have greater aero drag?

Low power EVs don't sell because they are still expensive. If you are spending $40,000 you want to accelerate like a $40,000 455 hp Camaro. If they were $15,000 you wouldn't care if they accelerated like a $15,000 Versa.

That's why I said "practically no difference". There's zero people in the world that would want a less powerful EV because it would force them to accelerate slower and thereby spend less time at their cruising speed, thereby extending their range from 200 miles to 200.1 miles.

A person can always travel slower to reduce aerodynamic drag and thereby travel more efficiently. In an EV, I'd be inclined to travel faster because the cost of electricity per mile is peanuts, even at high speed.

EVs have drawbacks mostly pertaining to the fact that a battery is like a super expensive but very crappy fuel tank. They have to appeal in other ways to make up for that significant drawback. You're right that an expensive and slow EV has little appeal to people. Tesla realized this early on and chose to leverage the things that appeal to people.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by JSH

A $40,000 EV is really a $30,000 in Oregon. To me that compares favorably when gas CUVs start at $25,000. The EV will be cheaper long term.

Well honestly $30,000 is also too much but at that point I start thinking credits might get it below $25,000 which would be the absolute most I would pay. There are great ICE AWD choices at that price like a loaded up Kona. Then of course I would also wait 3 years on whatever and buy it used letting someone else take the biggest hit on depreciation.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Well honestly $30,000 is also too much but at that point I start thinking credits might get it below $25,000 which would be the absolute most I would pay. There are great ICE AWD choices at that price like a loaded up Kona. Then of course I would also wait 3 years on whatever and buy it used letting someone else take the biggest hit on depreciation.

The $30k "Oregon" price includes all subsidies.

Somewhere around $25k for a new EV is where I begin to pay attention.

Unfortunately a couple year old used EV goes for about as much as a new one with subsidies. You've got to buy a 4 year old EV to really put some distance between new/used prices.

New Bolt EVs are reported to be selling for as little as $26k. The federal tax credit expired for GM brands.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Well honestly $30,000 is also too much but at that point I start thinking credits might get it below $25,000 which would be the absolute most I would pay. There are great ICE AWD choices at that price like a loaded up Kona. Then of course I would also wait 3 years on whatever and buy it used letting someone else take the biggest hit on depreciation.

It sounds like you aren't in the market for a new CUV then. I'm not either - I buy 3 year old cars off lease too. However, for an apples to apples comparison it makes sense to compare new vehicles. It also makes sense to compare vehicles of the same class size and the Kona is a size smaller than the ID.4

As redpoint said, $30K is with Oregon credits and rebates. That makes is about $5K more than the equivalent size gas CUV. However, the thing about an EV is that you are basically buying 10 years of fuel with the purchase price of an EV. The cost of electricity to fuel an EV is a tiny fraction of the cost of gas.

[Hersbird]

Electricity costs are not a tiny fraction of fuel costs. They may be lower, but not insignificant. Even if it was free, at 10,000 miles a year you only spend about $3600 in gas and I don't even drive that much. It would take me 10 years probably to recover a $5000 difference and we don't get any state credits, nor do I qualify for a full $7500 federal credit so it would be more like a $10,000 difference and take me more like 30 years to break even considering electricity isn't actually free.

[Piotrsko]

Anymore, who here besides me buys a this year new model car in cash*? Not being disrespectful, but pretty much everybody does easy monthly payments, so perhaps those need to reflect the average operating costs instead. This would mean a different cost /mile parameter that would actually reference what the public is doing.

*Actually check, that much cash is apparently illegal now.

[redpoint5]

My sig has the total cost of ownership spreadsheet. It doesn't include the opportunity cost of investing money rather than plunking down cash on a vehicle. Auto loans can be 2% or lower, so at that point I see it as free financing considering any investment will outperform over the long run.

[Piotrsko]

Ok so take the calculator ( thanks for including that) and run hypothetical CPM scenarios and see what's most effective. Pretty sure you have sort of already done that in a limited way for your situation.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

Ok so take the calculator ( thanks for including that) and run hypothetical CPM scenarios and see what's most effective. Pretty sure you have sort of already done that in a limited way for your situation.

I just figure if the interest rate for the loan is sufficiently low, I'll finance so I can invest the funds, which also allows me to have easy access to those funds should some opportunity come my way.

The other thing to consider is that a lender will require comprehensive/collision insurance for the vehicle; something I would not normally purchase unless my vehicle was worth >$15k. Liability insurance is very cheap, but comp/coll is quite a bit more. I select the highest deductible the lender allows in this case.

I created the spreadsheet so I could compare vehicles I'm considering so that I can weigh the extra lifetime costs against my desire to have the vehicle. It forces me to ask the question if the vehicle and features are worth x amount to me over the course of ownership.

... and over the weekend I created a simple spreadsheet that tracks various projects and tasks I need to accomplish. I give an importance rating as well as a difficulty rating, and a due date if it applies. The easy to accomplish and important things get sorted to the top of my list, the unimportant and difficult things go to the bottom, and those with a due date simply have to be done before that due date.